Chamber and committees

Yes, convener, if that is all right.

Under the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004, local authorities have a duty to plan for a young person’s transition as they leave school. In addition, the Social Care (Self-directed Support) (Scotland) Act 2013 aims to ensure that care and support are delivered in a way that supports a young person’s choices and ability to have control over their own life.

When it comes to other areas, we have heard from Stephanie Callaghan about Independent Living Fund Scotland’s transition fund and the opportunities that that presents.

In previous evidence sessions, the committee has heard about opportunities in further and higher education and employability services to support delivery of the no one left behind approach, including the local delivery of the young persons guarantee and, through that guarantee, our ambition to provide all young people, including disabled young people, with opportunities for work, training, education, enterprise or formal volunteering.

During the past year, we have invested £23.5 million in the delivery of fair start Scotland, which provides intensive and personalised pre-employment and in-work support for unemployed disabled people and those with health conditions or other barriers to progress in work.

The developing the young workforce programme begins in schools and is facilitated through Skills Development Scotland and careers advice.

It is important to recognise that support is different for everyone, including young people, who have different needs, ambitions and wants. It is about having a tailored approach to that young person’s ambitions for their life.

I can start on that one. With regard to the work that the Scottish Government is doing, I know that the committee has heard about how GIRFEC can be used to support transitions for disabled children and young people. We are committed to fully embedding GIRFEC—as the committee will know, that approach is internationally recognised and has been internationally replicated, locally embedded and positively embraced by practitioners. I know from my own previous practice how valuable GIRFEC is in providing for a shared language and shared plans across health and social care.

We refreshed the GIRFEC policy and practice guidance materials last September, and we are starting to refresh GIRFEC guidance on transitions. I am happy to keep the committee updated on that work, because it will be relevant across the committee’s remit.

The Scottish Government has also started to do work on GIRFE—I know that the committee heard about some of it during the session on the national care service. Work is on-going in other areas in relation to supporting not only disabled children and young people, but everyone. It is about being person centred and having a universal offer.

As the committee has heard, the landscape surrounding transitions is complex and multifaceted. To achieve their full potential, young disabled people might need help and support in a number of different ways and in a number of different areas. They also might seek that support from many different agencies.

The support could include support in the move from school or college or in the transfer of a child to adult services, in addition to helping them to identify and achieve employment, education or training, managing welfare, dealing with housing requirements, reviewing their healthcare needs and providing information and advocacy. The principles of good transitions tell us what needs to be in place for children who are transitioning to adulthood. However, as we have heard from previous witnesses, that is not always happening on the ground for a variety of reasons.

That is why we have been supporting ARC, which gave evidence in the previous panel, with the pilot and trial projects of principles into practice to share best practice on what works and, just as important, encourage the continual improvement of what does not work. We envisage that the strategy will assist with transitions and our learning about how we can improve the lives of children and young people as they move through the various stages of their lives.

As the committee has heard in evidence, it is not a single-portfolio issue; it is a cross-Government one. It touches on all areas of health, social care, education, early years provision and equalities. Therefore, taking joint responsibility whereby the Minister for Equalities and Older People and I can work with our colleagues across Government is a much more reasonable way of going forward than having one particular portfolio of responsibility.

I am happy to pick up on the proposal in the bill to designate a single minister. I set out in my response to the call for views that there are legislative competence issues with that in so far as the power to assign a Scottish minister a special responsibility is vested in the First Minister under sections 47(1) and 49(1) of the Scotland Act 1998. The proposal could also modify the operation of section 52(3) of the act in breach of the restrictions in schedule 4.

We believe that that would make the bill legislatively incompetent. We think that having joint ministers leading on transitions is a more effective way of delivering good transitions for children and young people.

A number of stakeholders, including COSLA, have queried the proposed estimate of the uptake and costs in response to the calls for evidence, and they have suggested that the costs in the financial memorandum underestimate the cost of implementing the bill. Some of those stakeholders have provided evidence to the committee that has highlighted that.

I know that earlier witnesses raised concerns about attrition assumptions in the financial memorandum in respect of young people having a transitions plan in place. We also note that the financial memorandum costs on-going support plans only for disabled young people who are not in education, employment or training once they have left school rather than all disabled young people. That is contrary to how the bill is drafted.

We would therefore welcome further evidence and analysis of the figures provided and the estimated uptake of transitions plans to inform the Government’s position on the financial implications of the bill.

We believe that implementing the strategy on which Ms McKelvie is leading is actually a more effective way of enabling change. We do not believe that we need legislation to do that. We believe that we can work alongside COSLA, as we do on numerous strategies, as well as individual local authorities and the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland to implement change. We can work co-operatively to achieve the aim that we all collectively, including the member who has lodged the bill, want—that is, better transitions between school and university or college, or wherever.

I think that working with agencies and representatives of organisations such as COSLA and local authorities is a much more effective way of delivering the outcomes that we want.

We absolutely support the intentions of the bill. However, in our party manifesto and in our programme for government, we have committed to improving transitions. We recognise that transitions need improvement. We also need to recognise that, as the convener alluded to and as you heard in evidence earlier, transitions are not one point in time, whereas the bill as drafted refers to “a ... plan”. Transitions happen in lots of different ways—people do not leave school and then go to a destination, and they do not move from one school to college and then not move on to something else. We need to be person centred and holistic in our planning.

The bill has certainly highlighted to the committee and wider stakeholders that we need to improve transitions but, as I said, we have already committed to doing that. Obviously, we would look to see whether the bill would add value to that.

Good morning, convener and committee, and thank you for your invitation to Ms McKelvie and me today.

I will start by recognising and thanking Pam Duncan-Glancy for the attention that she has drawn to the important topic of transitions for disabled young people through the bill. We know about the importance of good transitions planning in preparing children and young people for life beyond school. However, we also know that, for many disabled young people, the transition to young adult life still presents challenges.

We recognise that disabled young people leaving school and transitioning to young adult life is a complex area and that multi-agency collaboration and co-operation and a person-centred approach are required. We therefore whole-heartedly share the member’s ambition to improve the experiences and outcomes for disabled young people as they make the transition to young adult life.

However, we also share some of the questions that were raised by those who responded to the committee’s call for views and those who have already given evidence to the committee. The issues include the potential duplication or overlap of provisions in the bill with existing policy and legislation; considerations around implementation and the proposed duties on local authorities; clarity around definitions, data sharing, eligibility and resources; and, fundamentally, whether the bill as drafted could have its intended impact.

I therefore welcome the committee evidence sessions to consider the details of the bill’s provisions. It is essential that we consider all the evidence and options to ensure that we meet our shared aspiration of improving transitions for disabled children and young people.

As I set out in the Scottish Government response to the committee’s call for views, there is already a range of legislation, plans and policies in place that support the objective of improving transitions to adulthood, and we are committed to doing more.

We have already given non-statutory effect to two of the main provisions in the bill. We have done that through the joint ministerial leadership for transitions, which Ms McKelvie and I are taking forward, and through our programme for government commitment to introduce in this parliamentary term the first national transitions to adulthood strategy for disabled young people.

There are other important developments across the Scottish Government that support our shared outcome of improving transitions for disabled children and young people. Those include refreshing the planning guidance under getting it right for every child; developing a new approach to getting it right for everyone; continued support to the ARC Scotland principles into practice trial and to the Independent Living Fund Scotland’s transition fund; continued investment in employment support, including through the young persons guarantee; and important legislative developments, which include the incorporation of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and, of course, the national care service.

Ms McKelvie and I would be happy to provide more details on any of those things today. I look forward to any questions that members might have.

I met Ms Duncan-Glancy late last year, in November or December—I cannot remember exactly when it was—along with Ms McKelvie. At that meeting, we raised our concerns about the financial memorandum as presented. Ms Duncan-Glancy said that she would do some further work on that. If my memory serves me correctly, at that point she said that was continuing to engage with COSLA on some of the figures.