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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

That is the advice that I, as cabinet secretary, have been provided with. I am happy to bring in officials on that point, but when it comes to public appointments, there are certain requirements and duties that ministers have to fulfil. Those things take time. We have to move forward to ensure that there is an operational board, but I do not detract from your points on, for example, trade union membership of the board. I have been open to engaging on that issue. Currently, as the bill has been drafted, there is no such provision, but Pam Duncan-Glancy is well aware that I have made it clear that I will work with committee members on a range of issues that they might have, in that regard.

09:45  

My other point is that recruitment takes time. As you heard from Clare Hicks, it can take many months. I will be in front of the committee two weeks after recess, but to provide some reassurance to members, we could write to the committee on the timescales that are associated with public advertising of vacancies and ensure that the Government reflects on the committee’s asks in relation to amendments to be agreed at stage 2.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I think that some of the appointments are time limited. I will bring in Clare on those points.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I might defer to Clare Hicks, but my understanding is that there would be a substantial delay to the appointment process if that were to happen. I am happy to bring my officials in on that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Nico, do you want to come in on the first point?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

You are speaking hypothetically, Mr Greer, but I share your anxiety in that regard. We would not be able to give board members certainty about their role during the transitional period in which the SQA finds itself in as the bill makes its way through the Parliament.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

That sits with the line of questioning that Ms Duncan-Glancy pursued earlier. The Government will have to reflect and respond appropriately to the amendments on the recruitment process. If the committee chooses not to pass the order, which is in the committee’s gift, it will simply delay that process and risk some of the appointments becoming unregulated, which speaks to Mr Greer’s point.

On accreditation specifically, I remind the member that only 20 staff are employed in the SQA accreditation team, so if there is a suggestion about different board composition for accreditation, we need to be mindful of the number of staff in the part of the organisation that we are talking about. The Government will have to reflect on the amendments that are agreed to at stages 2 and 3. I have given the committee a reassurance today that I will do that. I have to do that, but I also want to do that as cabinet secretary, because it will provide for a stronger piece of legislation that will have more political goodwill around it, and it will deliver the outcomes that we want to see for our young people.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am at a loss as to how the committee can support the general principles of the bill at stage 1 and then not seek to work with the Government on amendments. In fact, I think that I have met most of the members who are at the table today and there is a political willingness from most parties to work with the Government on improving the bill to get it to where it needs to be, and I accept that.

Fundamentally, however, if the member’s line of questioning was accurate, I would have expected the committee to reject what the Government was proposing out of hand at stage 1. I think that there is a consensus in the room that we need to replace the SQA. I think there is also an expectation from the public that we deliver on that—but how we do that is in the gift of the Parliament. The order before you is a matter for the committee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I will bring in Clare Hicks to talk about the Ethical Standards Commissioner’s role in the process. Important decisions need to be taken about how we advertise and how the process is conducted. There are risks inherent in our not adhering to the ethical appointments process.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I would also like to write to you to give you more certainty in relation to timescales, public advertising of the recruitment process and how that will be aligned with the timescales that are associated with stages 2 and 3 of the Education (Scotland) Bill. I want to do that to reassure the committee that the Government will listen—we will have to listen—to any decisions that might affect the order.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I have made similar comments—as a former teacher—and I have reflected on the need for us to have teachers inherently at the heart of decision making in the new qualifications body.

I also have a point to make that does not relate to the board appointments that we are considering today. I think that the role of a seconded headteacher in coming directly from a school to lead the schools unit in the new qualifications body will be a real strength from the point of view of Scotland’s schools and our teachers.