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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 August 2025
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Displaying 1076 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am meeting the Scottish Funding Council later today, along with Mr Dey. I was somewhat surprised by the correspondence that the committee received in relation to that number, which had not been shared with ministers in advance. I recognise the concern, and I share that concern very much.

The committee is aware, as we have stated this publicly, that there has been no further financial ask of Government beyond the £22 million of liquidity, which has been met. However, Mr Dey and I have been very clear that we are open to additional asks from the university, under the auspices of the SFC, recognising the legal need for that in this space.

We have also been very clear that, although it is not palatable to ministers, that is the number that we expect. However, the university said in evidence to the committee two or three weeks ago that it was looking at alternatives. We have not yet been presented with those alternatives. I expect them to be presented to the SFC in the coming weeks, and I would be more than happy to, and I expect to, give an update to the committee on that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

No. The university was engaging with the SFC, because it had to engage directly with the SFC rather than the Government. The engagement was undertaken with the SFC.

On 14 February, the university requested urgent liquidity support from the SFC and on 19 February the SFC notified the Scottish Government. On 25 February, we provided the extra £15 million more broadly and on 6 March the SFC received the draft copy of the FRP, which, on 7 March, was sent to the Scottish Government. That draft included details of the proposed reduction in the number of staff. That is the chronology. The £15 million was made available and, at a later date, we found out the actual number of job losses and met the asks in relation to the £22 million of liquidity support.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The Parliament also voted for a budget that committed the Government to expanding free school meals to those in receipt of the Scottish child payment. The regulations will allow us to move at pace on that commitment, which was set out in the budget. I recognise that your party did not vote for the budget—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Sorry, Mr Ross, but you completed your question and now you are talking across me.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Have you completed your question?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I do not agree with that assertion. Targeting the expansion of free school meals at those receiving the Scottish child payment was agreed to in advance of the next stage of the universal roll-out. Therefore, the SSI does not preclude the Government from meeting its ultimate aspiration, which is to deliver universality. If anything, it compels the Government to deliver on—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I do not have the email chain in front of me—I think that Mr Rennie’s point was informed by that chain, as well as perhaps the report in The Courier. Without seeing that, I am not sure that there was a suggestion in it to cut the figure per se. I think that there was a negotiation between the SFC and the Government—this is just my memory, so I will have to check back, convener—to assess what was required at that moment to assist the university.

I appreciate that some of those emails have been released and that some of them are redacted, which does not help to shed light on the issue—I accept that. However, I can say that there was a communication between the SFC and the Government at that time, during the budget process, to move at pace to provide that extra funding. That was provided, and then there was the £22 million liquidity request. I do not necessarily accept that there was a decision to reduce the amount. From memory, this would have been advice that was given to ministers by the SFC at that time.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am more than happy to do that. I accept the committee’s on-going interest in this issue and I very much share it. I am happy to share as much as I am able to with the committee. We will meet the SFC later today, and if I can shed further light on our engagement with the SFC and the next steps, I will do so. Timescales are important here and we need to move at pace. I am happy to provide that information in writing to the committee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

You did.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The modelling that I have is two years old and puts the estimated cost at £256 million. I am more than happy to engage with political parties on how we deliver universality, but members well know, as we have discussed and debated at length, that that will not be during this session of Parliament because of the costs associated with the roll-out. However, the Government has taken the decision to work on a cross-party basis on the deliverability of the roll-out for children in receipt of the Scottish child payment. Today’s SSI will allow us to move forward at pace on that and will allow more families to obtain access to free school meals provision, which I think is a good thing for families and children in Scotland.