Chamber and committees

Exactly that.

It is an example of the Government recognising the challenge of the fact that lots of families have missed out over the years, who should—this relates to Ms Haughey’s point—have been able to access free school meals.

I broadly agree with the convener’s point about the stigma that, historically, has been associated with free school meals. The data-sharing arrangement goes some way to overcoming that, because it empowers local authorities to reach out to families by writing to them directly to make sure that their children are in receipt of free school meals.

Politically, we should be in lockstep on the issue. I accept the challenge in relation to universality. We could have a political debate about why the Government has not been able to afford that during the current parliamentary session. However, fundamentally, the SSI is about data sharing and, as Ms Haughey said, making sure that those children who are hungry receive food in school so that they are able to attain and to attend, which there are real challenges with post the pandemic. The SSI is part of our holistic response to that situation in our schools. The Government has come forward with a solution.

I am not here to be given marks out of 10 by committee members. I do not expect praise or feedback to that end, but we need to learn from this. I accept that it has been a challenge for us to move forward at pace, but we must use this as an opportunity to have better data sharing so that we can feed more children in our schools and meet the needs of more learners across Scotland, including in relation to widening access more broadly.

That would certainly be my aspiration. I am old enough to remember when Mr Adam and I took evidence in this room on the Finnish approach to education, which is depoliticised. The approach that is taken by political parties in that country is quite different from the one that is taken in Scotland, which tends to be split along constitutional lines.

When we talk about children in poverty, we should all be on the same page, working towards supporting those who are most in need. The SSI will allow us to make progress on that. I accept that the Government’s aspiration in relation to universality will not be met before the next election—that is well known to members; we have debated the issue in the chamber—but the SSI means that the Government will be compelled to make progress. We have put in place the extra funding, and we now expect local authorities to deliver on it. That is exactly why the SSI is so important.

It could, but there are differences when it comes to some of the widening access work that Mr Dey gave evidence on recently. I see the SSI as being part of the solution in the longer term for the exact same reason, because it will allow for a national approach to data sharing, which we do not currently have. In this instance, it will help local authorities to identify those who are in receipt of the Scottish child payment—I acknowledge that Mr Dey was giving evidence in relation to free school meals. More broadly, the instrument gives us an opportunity to learn how we might be able to better provide for data sharing between national Government, via—in this case—the auspices of Social Security Scotland, and local authorities.

I know that there have been significant challenges with the north-east pilot, which Mr Dey has written to the committee about, but I am keen that the approach that we are using in relation to the Scottish child payment, which compels the Government and local authorities to act, is one that we might be able to learn from in relation to widening access and to use in that space in the future.

The £22 million has been made available. As I understand it as cabinet secretary, I think that there was a negotiation between the SFC and the Government regarding how funding could be made available through the budget process. It is very clear that we acted at pace to provide that extra funding—we had to act at pace when the full quantum of job losses became known to the Government. That is why that funding was made available through the budget and it is why I announced the extra funding.

There are ways in which funding can be made available. Part of the funding—the £15 million—came through the budget process, but the other part of it came through £10 million in capital that I announced later. The important point is that the £22 million liquidity ask from the University of Dundee has been fully met and that there have been no further asks since.

I do not want to speak on behalf of Mr Dey. I reassure Ms Duncan-Glancy that I will take that point away from today’s evidence session and seek to engage directly with the Information Commissioner, particularly on this SSI and how it might be used as a learning point for us in relation to widening access.

As the member knows well, there have been real challenges in that regard. Mr Dey and I met Universities Scotland—I think at the start of this year—to talk about some of those challenges, because we want to have better data sharing. The Information Commissioner’s office has a direct role when there are challenges, and we need to be assured of all that we are doing. That assurance has been given in relation to this SSI. It may be that there is an opportunity to dovetail the approach that we have taken with this SSI in relation to Social Security Scotland and a national approach to widening access. I would be keen to pursue that with his office.

The budget agreement does not provide for that.

I cannot. I wrote to all local authorities two weeks ago. I have yet to be provided with advice from Ms Meikle; we discussed that earlier. I expect to receive that advice in the coming days. I would be happy to share the advice with the committee when I have it, but it has not yet been presented to me.

In terms of universality—

The 25,000 are the extra children whom we anticipate will be captured by the SSI. There are thousands of families who are currently missing out on free school meals for their children, which is not good.

We want all families who should be in receipt of free school meals to have that for their child or young person. The SSI will mean that the data sharing is much better and more granular at a local level, and it will allow local authorities to move at pace in implementing the extra funding that we have provided them with to deliver on that commitment.