Chamber and committees

Yes, it would. One power in a list of powers that the secretary of state will have under the bill is that he or she will be able to operate in devolved areas and on devolved matters. We rightly believe, as do the other devolved Administrations, that equivalent powers should be available to devolved Administrations to do exactly as you have said and to address issues. For example, if we saw a potential distortion, we should be able to refer the matter to the CMA and go through the process in the same way as the secretary of state can.

We continue to push for amendments to the bill in the later stages. At the end of the day, it is a UK bill and the UK Government will take it through Westminster as it sees fit.

We will continue to make the case, argue for those amendments and work with others of a similar view to make changes where we can. However, as I said, the bill will progress through Westminster based on what the UK Government decides it wants to include. It is of concern that the amendments have not been taken on board, which is one reason why we are not recommending that consent be given to the bill.

No. Thank you very much for the questions. We have covered all the issues that we wanted to raise, and it is good to get the committee’s perspective on the issues.

Yes, we are very conscious of that. I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy was with you earlier and that you spoke about the guidance and so on. Those issues are very much to the fore in terms of how we support local economic development. It is a priority for the Government and for me.

The issue will be the chilling effect. Risk aversion is part of the issue. We need to be open and clear with those in Scotland who may find themselves in that position. They may look at something and think that it is too difficult and that they do not want to take those risks.

For us to understand examples of that, it is important that they are brought to our attention. We are open to having those conversations and to looking for examples with local authorities and others of where that may be a risk so that we are aware of it and are able to work with those who might be affected and can help them navigate the process as necessary.

You have raised a few different issues. The lack of guidance suggests a lack of detail, which makes it difficult to take a view on some issues. The inclusion of agriculture, as I mentioned, is clearly a concern.

Our concern relates to the use of powers in devolved areas of competence. The UK secretary of state will have powers across the whole UK—they will have a whole list of powers with regard to the operation of the scheme, when it is up and running—but there is no equivalent power for the Scottish ministers in devolved areas. That imbalance runs against the devolution settlement.

We are concerned about that in principle, but we are also concerned about operational aspects, in relation to knowledge and understanding and the specific impact on Scotland. How events unfold in Scotland should have an impact on the nuances of any decisions that are made and on the relative importance of different decisions or subsidies, and the detailed knowledge of such matters is clearly in Scotland.

There is a point of principle about the powers and the erosion of the devolution settlement, but there is also the practical point that we are much closer to the issues than somebody in Whitehall would be.

We must have clarity. As has been said, there are questions about exactly how things will operate and there are concerns about the lack of guidance. There are also concerns that decisions would go to, and fall under the powers of, the secretary of state. Decisions will be taken at the UK level without regard to what is happening in Scotland or in other devolved Administrations.

On whether there should be more detail in the bill, and certainly in the guidelines, on there being different scope to act in different parts of the country, we support that call.

That is one of the areas in bill in which it is important to have guidelines. We have talked about the Scottish National Investment Bank. Much of what it would do would fit in that space. More detail and clarity in the guidelines as to how that aspect will be looked upon in the regime would be helpful.

To be honest, I am not fully up to speed on where we are with the membership of the unit. Hilary Pearce may have more up-to-date information.

From our point of view, we want proper regard to be given to the specific concerns of and issues in the devolved Administrations in relation to the membership of the unit. To do their jobs properly, it is essential for the unit’s members to understand the various ways in which things are done differently in the devolved parts of the UK.

Hilary, are you aware of the situation with membership of the unit?

Yes. It is already the case that we work within the interim regulations that are in place. As I said earlier, there have been examples already where we have had to make decisions on whether we feel support is within or outwith the rules, vague as they are. We will do our best to work within the legislation, but that might be more challenging, complex and difficult than it need be.

I looked at some of the evidence from last week and that is absolutely the case. There has been a shift from a much more rules-based process to one that is more open. The principles are laid down, but the most important part is how different people and organisations interpret them. The risk of organisations not taking steps that they properly should in terms of economic development and other opportunities is a concern.

I will hand over to Hilary Pearce in a minute to give a bit more detail on the conversations that our officials have had with the UK Government about guidelines and some of the specific gaps there. Suffice it to say that, although there have been a lot of conversations with the UK Government at ministerial and official levels, the reality is that the UK Government has been slow to come forward with the details of what the guidelines look like underneath the very broad-brush principles. That matters because organisations need to understand where the lines are, what is allowed and what is not allowed in various scenarios, which may not be obvious from the broad-brush principles.