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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1639 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

I am happy to take that away and write to the member with more detail. Our engagement with stakeholders working on fuel poverty is and has been appropriate up until the creation of the winter heating payment and through its delivery. We would certainly be interested in feedback from stakeholders on the issues that you have raised.

As I have made the committee aware, following some of our discussions on the winter heating payment, I instructed Social Security Scotland to write to local authorities in areas that had historically had the highest numbers of people receiving cold weather payments in order to emphasise what other support was available, for example the fuel insecurity fund.

There is appropriate engagement and we are open to more engagement. I thank you for raising the issue and I am happy to take it away if you would like any further details that we could provide.

09:45  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

That is another important question and one that we have discussed collectively in other sessions. I have said on several occasions that, in the months ahead, we will review the winter heating payment situation and consider whether payment in this period of the winter, February into March, is the right payment schedule for households. We will engage with a number of parties to consider what may be a better arrangement for winter 2023-24 and thereafter.

I remind colleagues that considerations around when the winter heating payment could be paid out this year were based on our engagement with stakeholders about when would be a good time for them to receive the payment. There was also the reality of the fact that Social Security Scotland was activating the Scottish child payment 2 in November. Scottish child payment 2 is shorthand for the increase to £25 and the extension of eligibility to under-16s. Social Security Scotland was undertaking that new and very significant payment arrangement in November and also paying out the carers allowance supplement and the child winter heating assistance at that time. Importantly, as well as the matters that Social Security Scotland was contending with in that period at the end of last year, our colleagues in the DWP were under a lot of pressure with their cost of living payments, which is why they were able to give us the data scan for winter heating payments only on 31 January, rather than at the beginning of January, which is when the Scottish Government wanted it. We were understanding of our colleagues in the DWP. They had a huge exercise to undertake to pay out their cost of living payments, and we agreed on 31 January because that was the date that the DWP could deliver to. It did deliver to that date—we received the data. The data was effectively processed by Social Security Scotland and payments have been going out in recent days, will be going out as we speak and will be undertaken this month, February, and also in March.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

The Scottish Government's priority is to pay the winter heating payment, which is happening as we speak, and it is all scheduled to be paid this month and into next month. Remember that the data scan of 400,000 is the biggest data scan that the Scottish Government has received in connection with paying new Government benefits. It is a very significant execution of a new benefit. Receipt of such a large data provision that we had to engage into our systems and pay out as quickly as possible is unprecedented in the history of Social Security Scotland. It is all happening very successfully. Once we have paid all those benefits out, we can actively report and consider what to do in the winter of 2023-24. I have already instructed policy and programming officials to consider when we deliver the benefit next winter. However, we need to engage with not just stakeholders but potentially also our experience panels and make sure that we get appropriate feedback from people who have received the benefit about what impact it had this winter as part of our consideration of when it would be best to pay it in the winter ahead.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

Officials in the Scottish Government and the DWP speak regularly about social security. Of course, the points that you have raised are valid and important. I have already instructed the Scottish Government officials who are engaged in programming and policy on the winter heating payment to consider what we are going to do next winter, and that will include engagement with their DWP counterparts.

As for the review, we will undertake that in a timescale that is appropriate and that allows us to make sure that we are discussing the outcome of those considerations internally with our colleagues in the DWP and also with the Parliament as necessary.

We do, of course, have to work collaboratively with the DWP on timelines. I spoke about that during the debate on the next phases of the programme. We need to discuss things in a manner that is considerate of both our needs. We will engage with the DWP on the winter heating payment for next year once we have completed this year’s winter heating payment. Be assured that the discussions to make sure that we have both orderly and timeous engagement with the DWP ahead of next winter in order to make the payment at the right time that is agreed by both parties will be undertaken appropriately.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

However, I emphasise that, within the current arrangement, social security has certainly been prioritised to a large extent with the additional support that has been provided: the £776 million above what we receive through the block grant adjustment.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

The fact is that the Truss Government’s decisions in the summer caused damage to the UK’s economy and therefore the Scottish economy, and to the financial markets. That had a knock-on effect on household costs and on mortgages and therefore on rent levels, on which we took interventionist action through legislation. There was also an impact on the UK Government’s ability to respond, because the financial situation impacted its public finances. Undoubtedly, the UK Government’s actions in the past year have had an impact. That is just a matter of fact.

Of course, there are external factors, such as the war in Ukraine. That is an important point to acknowledge, but the effect of Brexit is also an important factor to acknowledge. This time last year, we would not have anticipated the current level of inflation generally. Projections are of course undertaken, but the effects of what happened in the latter half of last year as a result of bad political decision making definitely had an effect on where we are now, unfortunately. That is why we have responded with our powers and resources to provide additional support in Scotland. We all know how much of a difference that is making in all the constituencies that we represent.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

Those are such important questions. They get to the heart of our considerations as a Government and as a society as to how Government can help people in these times. That is why we have done a great deal within our limited powers and relatively fixed budgets to support those on the lowest incomes. For example, in 2023-24 we are committing £776 million above the level of funding forecast to be received from the United Kingdom Government through block grant adjustments. That is a significant amount of additional investment in social security benefits from the Scottish Government.

As the instruments set out, we have chosen to increase the value of benefits where uprating is not a statutory requirement, in recognition of the difficulties faced by many due to the increased cost of living.

We also provided an enhanced uprating of 6 per cent for a range of devolved benefits in 2022—the last financial year—despite the fact that the September 2021 consumer prices index rate at that time was 3.1 per cent. In other words, we gave a significant uplift in the last financial year and we intend to do so in this year. Of course, we increased the Scottish child payment, first from £10 to £20 per week in April 2022, which was an increase of 100 per cent, and again from £20 to £25 from November 2022. That is a significant amount of additional support.

Those choices all represent increases to the value of benefits beyond the statutory uprating requirements, as I have emphasised. As well as the Scottish child payment, compared with UK equivalents our other payments are already more generous than those available in the UK social security system. For example, the best start grant pregnancy and baby payment is currently £642.35 compared to £500 for the sure start maternity grant, the UK equivalent, which is a difference of £142.35. In Scotland, we also have the best start grant pregnancy and baby payment for subsequent children currently at £321.20, for which there is no UK equivalent. The three Scottish best start food payments are also more generous in value than the rest of the UK healthy start equivalent.

Through our seven benefits that are not available elsewhere in the UK and also with our benefits that I have just outlined, for which there is a UK equivalent but we are being more generous and paying more, we are looking in the round to do as much as we can to provide additional support within a largely fixed budget and, of course, with limited power.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

May I speak on that point, convener? Thank you, Pam Duncan-Glancy. Of course, there is that aspect of the £428 million, but we are making a commitment to uprate benefits where there is not a statutory duty to do so, and you also have to remember the additional social security that is not provided elsewhere in the UK, such as the £442 million for the Scottish child payment. Let us keep in mind in that wider perspective.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Additional Payments) (No 2) Bill

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

We need to undertake case transfer first.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Ben Macpherson

I do not think we have time to go through considerations around the Barnett formula. There have been numerous debates on that, and the debate continues. Allocations through the fiscal framework and of course Scotland as a collective, through different taxations, pays a very significant amount of money into the Treasury through its resources, which we should not underestimate.