Chamber and committees

Well, I think that there is a balance here, because I can appreciate—

I appreciate Pam Duncan-Glancy’s stated view that she does not believe that £50 is a high enough figure, but does she appreciate that the winter heating payment will deliver more support for her constituents than the cold weather payment did?

Of course.

It is guaranteed that the winter heating payment will be paid to people every year and will not depend on weather conditions. We have gone through the points about delivery in February, and I have made a strong commitment that we will seek to do what we can to get payments to people within that month. That is our strong ambition through the determination and commitment of Angela Keane and her team at Social Security Scotland. We will do what we can to get that payment to people as quickly as possible, but we are delivering to 400,000 people. That is a significant number of people, and we want to ensure that we get the support to them.

The financial commitment of the Scottish Government, at £20 million, is, of course, higher than the average of £8.3 million that is spent on cold weather payments. Again, we are spending more on this benefit than would have been the case under the UK system.

I thank members for their constructive engagement today. I urge the committee to pass the regulations so that we can deliver the winter heating payment for around 400,000 people in Scotland.

I refer members to my opening statement and to the discussion that we have had. I urge colleagues to pass the motion.

I move,

That the Social Justice and Social Security Committee recommends that the Winter Heating Assistance (Low Income) (Scotland) Regulations 2023 [draft] be approved.

Of course. I appreciate the costs that face those households. I hope that the delivery of child winter heating assistance and the changes that we made last year in increasing the number of people who were eligible for that has helped, but I appreciate the challenges for those households.

Just to correct the record, I should have said that there was also one payment in 2014-15, so that is another £25. I apologise to the committee, but, again, the amount of support that would have been paid through the winter heating payment system would have been £50 reliably per year, which would have accumulated to significantly more.

If I may, convener, I will bring in Owen Allen in a minute to talk about the engagement with stakeholders and others. The Scottish Government consulted more widely, and we really appreciated the feedback and contributions from all those who engaged with that consultation. From that and through our experience panels, which Social Security Scotland consults consistently regarding our work, there was a clear view that breaking the link with the cold weather payment was much preferred because of the unreliability of not knowing whether support would be available.

Under the cold weather payment system, the requirement for seven consecutive days of cold weather often means that, because there may be temperatures of 0°C or below for six days but not for a seventh, people do not get the extra support. There are also issues because the reliance on and geographical placement of the weather stations mean that some places cannot get the cold weather payment even when the weather feels—and is—cold. The way in which that is organised logistically feels unjust to people, and it is unjust, which is why we are seeking to make the change to a reliable payment.

Owen, do you want to say a bit more about the engagement that we undertook?

Those important points get to the heart of the weakness of the cold weather payment system: it is unreliable and, as I said in my opening statement, it is dependent on the weather dropping below 0°C for seven consecutive days. That is combined with the fact that the weather stations do not necessarily capture the feelings of cold and the experience of cold weather that many communities are subject to. For example, wind chill is not factored into the considerations.

In the past 10 years, Lerwick, in Shetland, has had only three triggers for the cold weather payment. You mentioned other areas in your region, and Wick has had only two triggers since 2010-11. That shows the weakness of the current system.

In moving away from the cold weather payment and towards winter heating assistance, we seek to provide support to areas in a reliable way. Particularly for the communities that you represent, that will be an improved position. However, other areas of Scotland experience fuel poverty, although the weather is perhaps not quite as cold—albeit that it is still cold.

We have sought to make a change that will help low-income households in a more comprehensive way. It will increase the number of people who, on average, will benefit from support from that winter benefit from around 185,000 to 400,000, as I said. That is an increase of more than 200,000 people who will receive that support. The payment will also be reliable. That is the key change that we are making today.

I ask the member to be mindful of the turmoil that the UK Government has been in through the winter months and the challenging circumstances that that created for intergovernmental engagement, and in relation to new ministers being appointed and then brought up to speed in their departments. I assure you that my officials regularly pressed the point that we would have preferred to have the data earlier and that we needed it to deliver the benefit. However, we have also been sensitive to and mindful of the pressures on the DWP in delivering its cost of living support.

I want to be absolutely clear that the Scottish Government has made the case strongly that we would have preferred to get the data at an earlier juncture, but we were respectful of the demands on our DWP colleagues and we have come to an agreement. We are grateful to them for their strong commitment that they will give us the data that we need on 31 January.

I appreciate the questions, and I listened to Frazer Scott’s evidence last week. We have deliberately built into these regulations the capacity to pay a higher sum in future years if the Government is financially able to do that. That would require a change to the regulations—another set of amending regulations. The ability to pay two payments, or more, in the winter, if that were the determination of the Government at that time, would require two scans from DWP of the data available in order to implement that. I have deliberately built in flexibility to pay more—and more often—in the future if that is feasible and financially possible. Members are aware of the challenge for all of Government in this financial year, given the two statements that have been made by the Deputy First Minister and acting finance secretary about how challenging the budget is this year. The budget for the next financial year will be announced to Parliament this afternoon, and members will know that I cannot comment on that at this point.

The Government has a very strong record of seeking to do more with Scottish social security where and when it can. Unfortunately, we have not been able to pay an additional carers allowance supplement this year, but we have, of course, continued to pay the carers allowance supplement, which is not available anywhere else in the UK. We have increased the Scottish child payment by 150 per cent. We are delivering child winter heating assistance—that has been paid. There are a range of supports from the Scottish Government that are over and above what people receive elsewhere in the UK, utilising the social security system to provide additional support to people who need it. We are always looking at ways in which we can do more, but that is, to a very large extent, within the restricted budget that we have to operate within. That is the reality of the situation that we face in these financial times and with the limited powers and resources of the Scottish Government.

Would I like winter heating assistance to be a higher amount? Of course I would. However, we have to operate within the budget that we have. As I said, £50 is more than many individuals would have received under the cold weather payment system, and we are pleased to be able to give them that additional support. We appreciate the challenging times that people are experiencing.