Chamber and committees

Can I just say clearly that I want that to continue.

As I have referenced before, we first need to deliver adult disability payment, which of course was nationally rolled out on 29 August 2022, and complete the case transfer process for individuals on personal independence payment and disability living allowance for working adults in Scotland to adult disability payment, which is under way. We need to undertake that process. Once everyone is in the Scottish system, we will consider matters for the future, which also relates to why we are consulting on adult disability payment. That consultation is live.

Thank you for your important questions on the regulations. I hope that you will support them.

Motion agreed to,

That the Social Justice and Social Security Committee recommends that the Social Security Up-rating (Scotland) Order 2023 be approved.

Of course, considerations around those on low incomes are at the heart of everything that we are doing with our social security system. The additional benefits that we provide and that are not available elsewhere in the UK are absolutely targeted at low-income households. The Scottish child payment impacts over 300,000 children, all of whom are in low-income households receiving reserved benefits that allow them to access the Scottish child payment, which is an additional £442 million of support.

In relation to what measures we consider when we are thinking about how to ensure that we are being responsive to low-income households when deciding the uprating policy, Scottish Government analysts—I will perhaps bring in Dominic Mellan to say more on this if he wishes to—undertake an annual review of the potential inflation metrics that could be used to uprate benefits. The CPI has been used consistently to uprate benefits by the Scottish Government and the UK Government—the DWP—as it is a leading measure of inflation used by the Office for National Statistics, it holds national statistic status, and CPI forecasts are published regularly by the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Bank of England.

We are aware of recent developments by the ONS and other stakeholders to develop supplementary price metrics to reflect that price rises in the economy do not affect all households equally, which is at the heart of Pam Duncan-Glancy’s question. For example, the ONS now publishes CPI rates by income decile. Scottish Government analysts use these additional price indices extensively for internal analysis and briefing of ministers. However, the ONS advises that those price indices are experimental and cautions against their use for anything other than research purposes at this juncture.

We are very focused on providing additional support to low-income households, which is why we provide the additional benefits that we do—the seven benefits are not available in the UK—and we keep in mind how we measure the uprating policy and how best to do that. Dominic Mellan, do you want to say any more on that?

That would require a piece of primary legislation to have been passed by this Parliament. It would have required additional financial resource to be found within a restricted budget. Of course, where we have been able to allocate additional resource using already established mechanisms, we have done so. We have provided additional support where we can and we also passed a bill in order to be able to pay carers allowance supplement in 2021. We also introduced the Scottish child payment from 2019 to 2021 initially for under-sixes and then rolled it out fully to under-16s. We have used existing mechanisms and created new ones to provide additional support, but primary legislation would be required for what Pam Duncan-Glancy refers to.

Susan Soutar, do you want to come in on anything further on that point?

I cannot recall the specific request and the correspondence that was potentially issued in response to that, but we consider, particularly in these times with the high cost of energy, what additional support can be provided. That is why, for example, the creation and then payment during the last years of the child winter heating assistance has been so important in providing additional support for those households. Colleagues will remember that, when we took through the regulations on the winter heating payment, I talked about the fact that we deliberately drafted those regulations to provide flexibility for the Government in the future should it wish to pay either a higher amount or an additional payment of the winter heating payment. That would be contingent on the financial resources available, which takes us back to the thrust of the challenge, which is how to provide more support in a situation where we have a largely fixed budget and limited powers.

There will always be calls on the Scottish Government to do more, but it is also important to recognise, acknowledge and emphasise that collectively, as a Parliament, we are delivering more support for people in Scotland than is available elsewhere in the UK. We are doing that with determination and dedication to help people and to make Scotland a more socially just place. We absolutely appreciate people’s needs and that there are demands for us to do more, but I hope that the committee and members across the political spectrum appreciate that, in good faith, the Scottish Government is trying to do as much as it can with its resources, such as the £428 million for the uprating that we are considering today; the £442 million for the Scottish child payment that is not available elsewhere; and the additional benefits such as child winter heating assistance.

I think that I have already covered that point in my responses to Pam Duncan-Glancy and Paul McLennan. I do not know that I have anything further to add on the issue.

Yes, there is, and we will undertake an evaluation of when would be the best time to pay the winter heating payment.

We all know the significant additional delivery demand that the Scottish Government took on in the week of 14 November, when eligibility for the Scottish child payment increased to the under-16s. We all know what was required in terms of the programming and ensuring the systems were set up, which they were—and very successfully. Everything has worked very well with that payment. That significant additional capacity will not be required of Social Security Scotland in the year ahead. However, we will be reliant on a data scan from the DWP, so we will have to negotiate and agree collectively with the DWP on a date for the data scan for the winter heating payment in the winter ahead. We will discuss that in good faith and collaboratively with the DWP. It will not necessarily be impacted by but will be somewhat contingent on the demands that the DWP is wrestling with at that time. Of course, I encourage all members to emphasise to the DWP the priority that MSPs place on good engagement between the DWP and Social Security Scotland, because it is important for all people in Scotland.

Absolutely, it has an effect across different policy areas. I think the argument for more borrowing powers for the Scottish Government becomes stronger all the time. The current fiscal framework arrangements clearly constrain the extent to which we can respond to the cost of living crisis and any other crisis, because we need to operate within that largely fixed budget. Our ability to target funds to respond to any emerging crisis is therefore limited to reprioritising, as I emphasised to Pam Duncan-Glancy, from within an existing budget and that is a significant limitation. That is the reality on which we will rightly be pressing UK ministers and the UK Government as part of the upcoming renegotiation of the fiscal framework.

The current arrangements—constrained borrowing and reserved powers—limit the Scottish Government’s abilities and we are dependent on decisions made by the UK Government. That was the case during the pandemic. It has been the case during the cost of living crisis and determines whether we are able to pay more. For example, we could pay more for the carers allowance additional supplement in 2021 because the additional resource was available. Additional flexibilities would allow the Scottish Government to mobilise and deploy funding most effectively and efficiently to support our citizens.

The fiscal framework review must ensure that the Scottish Government and Parliament have the necessary fiscal flexibility to manage the risks that we face within our devolved responsibilities and to support economic recovery, as well as households who need it. In doing so, the review must ensure that the Government has the necessary levers to manage the budget effectively and to respond to pressures and risks. Social security is part of those considerations—

Unless you want me to, I will not repeat what I laid out to Pam Duncan-Glancy but will emphasise that the Scottish Government and our analysts annually review the inflation metrics that could be used to uprate benefits.

I will emphasise what we are doing for low-income households. I talked about the £442 million that we have allocated in our largely fixed budget for the Scottish child payment. As I emphasised in my answer to Mr Dornan, now that the Scottish child payment is paid at £25 per week per child, our five family payments could be worth around £10,000 by the time a child turns six, compared to around £1,800 for eligible families in England and Wales and over £20,000 by the time the child turns 16. That is a significant investment in helping low-income households, which is the right thing to do. That is why we are doing it, and we are determined to provide that support and be proactive about it.

For subsequent children, those payments are worth £9,700 by the time a child turns six, compared to around £1,300 in England and Wales. Of course, we would like people in England and Wales to get similar support, but we do not have determination over that. In Scotland, however, that is the extra support that we are providing to low-income households.