Chamber and committees

We have to make sure that the measures are proportionate, because we do not want to put people off from applying for a licence. If applicants have committed an offence that involves fireworks under the six terrorism acts that we are talking about, they will be required to disclose that. That strikes the appropriate balance.

I will start by addressing Mr Greene’s amendments 13, 16, 22 and 25. I thank him for his engagement on those amendments in advance of today’s proceedings and I believe that those discussions have led to revised amendments that capture the intent of his original amendments at stage 2, so I am pleased to support his amendments today.

As I have previously outlined, it had always been intended that, as part of implementation, processes would be put in place to ensure that people have access to information regarding appeals when they need it. However, as I set out at stage 2, I see merit in placing a duty on the Scottish ministers to share that information with licence applicants and holders at key points when a decision is made. I am happy to support amendments 13, 16, 22 and 25 and I encourage other members to do so as well.

I turn to Mr MacGregor’s amendments regarding the difference between additional mandatory conditions that must apply to all licences and optional conditions that the Scottish ministers will have the discretion to attach to individual licences. I believe that those amendments provide clarity and put beyond doubt what has always been intended to be in the bill. As Mr MacGregor outlined, the amendments change neither the powers of the Scottish ministers to prescribe and apply licence conditions nor the appeal rights of individuals from the position that has always been intended in the bill. I thank Mr MacGregor for his engagement on those amendments before lodging them. I am pleased to support amendments 15, 17 and 26.

Lastly, I turn to Mr Findlay’s amendment 77, which seeks to require a review of the licence term one year after the regulations that set out the term are made and each year thereafter. I consider that requirement to be excessive. In particular, if a licence term longer than one year is set following consultation, I am not clear that such a review would provide meaningful results, as the licence term will be consulted on and set out in regulations. As I have outlined before, our working assumption is currently that the licence term will be five years.

Ms Stevenson’s stage 2 amendment 56, which Mr Findlay will remember, requires a report on the effectiveness of the act within five years of royal assent. When the package of measures in the bill has had the opportunity to bed in following implementation, I consider that a constructive review of the licensing system as a whole can take place at that point. However, should any issues or concerns about the licence term arise before that, the Scottish ministers will be able to progress a change through consultation and further regulations, if that is necessary. Therefore, I cannot support amendment 77 and I ask other members not to support it.

To summarise, I support all the amendments in the group, with the exception of amendment 77.

Jamie Greene has made a legitimate point. We will keep the fee under review. The modelling that we have done, which he will no doubt have seen, shows a likely reduction in fireworks sales. We will keep that under review; if there is evidence to suggest that the situation is as he suggests, we will reconsider the level at which the fee has been set.

I reiterate the point that I made earlier: I remain committed to ensuring that the licence fee is proportionate and fair. It will be set, following a wide-ranging consultation, at a rate that will ensure that, although robust checks and balances are in place, it is not a restrictive barrier to safe and lawful use of fireworks.

I will move on to Russell Findlay’s amendment. I do not consider amendment 71 to be necessary. The bill already requires the fee to be set with regard to the “reasonable costs” of the licensing system, so any impact of inflation on those costs will, of course, form part of the fee level that is determined. Consultation on the fee, which will be required before any regulations are made, will ensure that the fee amount is reasonable, and will allow other cost pressures on individuals to be reflected.

I understand that the requirement to obtain a licence and pay a fee will mean that people who wish to buy and use fireworks will incur additional costs. Again, I reiterate that I remain committed to ensuring that the licence fee is proportionate and fair.

Ensuring safe and responsible use of fireworks is imperative in terms of achieving the policy aims of the licensing system. I believe that, through the illustrative modelling in the financial memorandum, a balance has been struck between, on one hand, introducing a licence fee and, on the other, avoiding overly restrictive barriers to lawful purchase and use of fireworks.

Will the member take an intervention?

As I have set out, I have moved on a number areas in which I thought that it was proportionate for regulations to be subject to affirmative rather than negative procedure, where those regulations involve substantive details. As I have said, the regulations that we are discussing here would be technical and administrative. Therefore, I think that, in this case, the use of negative procedure—which has been specified in many different types of legislation that the Parliament has considered while I have been here—is appropriate.

The member is correct in saying that the committee has the power to knock back those regulations if it wishes to do so. Although they are not subject to the consultation requirements, the regulations are subject to affirmative procedure, which means that there will be enhanced parliamentary scrutiny of regulations that are laid using that power.

Amendment 33 seeks to completely remove section 19 from the bill and is related to the group of amendments, which have already been debated, that aim to remove the licensing system from the bill. The licensing scheme is a core policy of the bill, and the provision for consultation on regulations is, in my view, essential to ensuring that the licensing system will operate well in practice. Members will understand why I therefore cannot support amendment 33.

Amendment 34 seeks to include a new section setting out a requirement on Scottish ministers before they lay regulations relating to part 2 of the bill and to the licensing system. The matters that are covered in the regulations that are provided for in that part of the bill are not of the type to require the superaffirmative procedure that amendment 34 would apply. The regulations would, for the most part, set out matters of operational detail or administrative procedure. Although it is always possible for Parliament to seek additional scrutiny in that manner, I believe that the superaffirmative procedure is best suited to matters of significant importance, complexity or difficulty.

I hope that members will understand why, for the reasons that I have outlined, I cannot accept the amendments in this group.

They will not be criminalised if they employ a private company to do such a display for them.

Ms McNeill’s amendment 79 seeks to shorten the permitted number of days on which fireworks can be supplied over the bonfire period from 15 days, which the bill currently provides for, to nine days. For the first time, the bill sets out periods in which it is permitted that people in Scotland can be supplied with fireworks. We think that the period that we have set out, which is based on consultation, creates a fair balance between the desire to celebrate special days in our communities and curtailing of general supply and use of fireworks.

I believe that limiting the supply period further could risk a situation in which people would have a very limited number of days on which to purchase fireworks, and would inadvertently be encouraged to store them in domestic settings. It also risks squeezing the supply chain over the busiest period for firework purchases, which could cause retailers to overstock and thereby lead to safety issues around storage.

If there is evidence that the permitted periods of supply should be reduced further in the future, the bill provides for that being done via secondary legislation. Therefore, I do not support amendment 79, and I encourage Ms McNeill not to press it.

I turn to amendments 80 and 81. Our intention in introducing restricted days of use is that we address the negative impacts of unpredictable fireworks use, while retaining periods during which fireworks may be used appropriately by the general public. It was recognised that setting permitted periods for use provides flexibility to allow displays to go ahead on or around the dates of celebrations, and allows for postponement or delays that are due to inclement weather, which Mr Greene mentioned earlier, or any type of unsafe conditions.

Ms McNeill’s amendments 80 and 81 seek to reduce the number of permitted days of use over the bonfire period and the new year period to eight days and three days, respectively. The amendments would reduce the number of days on which it is permitted to use fireworks by almost a quarter.

There is a fine line between introducing permitted periods in order to reduce the negative effects on our vulnerable populations and allowing for the enjoyment that members of the public can and do get from fireworks. At the same time, we want to reduce the impact on businesses and ensure that adequate safety measures remain in place. I believe that further limiting the permitted periods of use could risk a situation in which people would have a very limited number of days on which to use fireworks, and would inadvertently be encouraged to use them in unsafe conditions.

I hear what the member is saying and understand why she wants to raise those concerns. Would she accept that the licensing scheme, and asking members of the public to undertake a training course when they apply for a licence, so that they will be taught where and when they can use fireworks and how to store and use them safely and lawfully, will go some way towards addressing those concerns?

That is where I do not agree, and I think that I have just covered that. Local authorities already have discretion whether to allow certain public displays. We had an exchange about that at stage 2. It is not in bill, but they do have that discretion. That may give the member some comfort on that point.

Amendment 82 would give discretion as to whether a public fireworks display would be allowed in a particular area. I am reluctant to deprive communities of organised public displays and the benefits that they can bring to communities. In many cases, local authorities are already able to determine the suitability of displays in a particular place, through their public entertainment licence processes, so I cannot support that amendment.

Amendment 1 sets out that a local authority must take reasonable steps to inform those consulted about what it means in practice when a zone is created, amended or removed. That is in line with the policy intent for the firework control zones and our expectations of how the publication of a decision on and information about firework control zones will work in practice. I am grateful to Ms McNeill for her engagement on the issue, and I am pleased to be able to support the amendment.

Amendment 83 seeks to provide a formal process for community groups to instigate consideration of a firework control zone and a duty on the local authority to respond to it. I sympathise with the amendment, as I share Ms McNeill’s views on the importance of community empowerment, and we had quite a long exchange on the point at stage 2.

Sections 30 and 31 of the bill enable Scottish ministers to make further regulations about firework control zones and require that local authorities must have regard to any guidance that is issued about those zones. I believe that such guidance, co-designed with local authorities and communities, is a more appropriate route than amendment 83 for setting out that further detail of the local procedures for control zones, including procedures for involving local communities. Should that prove to be insufficient, it will be possible to make regulations to strengthen those requirements in the future. However, I think that including it in the bill at this stage would remove flexibility before there has been an opportunity for local approaches to be developed and tested by those who know their communities best.

I think that the guidance is a more appropriate place to determine a process to give life to the member’s intention, because I fear that it would not be as simple for local authorities to do that as the member is describing, and we have to take that into account.

Earlier, Katy Clark asked me about the definition of public displays and community groups. We have taken quite a general approach to the definition and have chosen a widely understood definition that is used by local authorities at the moment. The definition has a two-part test within it. In order for an event to be considered a public event, the organisation involved would have to be established—it would have to have an identity—and the event would have to be open to the public. I hope that that sets the member’s mind at rest.

Will the member give way?

Amendments 86 and 90 aim to increase the maximum penalties that are available for two firework-related offences—namely, an offence that has been committed under the Fireworks Act 2003 and one that has been committed under the Explosives Act 1875.

Amendment 86 would increase from six to 12 months the maximum sentence available for people who are found guilty of an offence under the 2003 act, when that offence is related to the supply or use of fireworks in Scotland.

Amendment 90 relates to the offence of throwing fireworks in public under the 1875 act. However, that is a UK-wide offence. The amendment would make the penalty of up to 12 months’ imprisonment available for people who were found guilty of the offence in Scotland. That would be available as an alternative to the existing penalty of a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or as an additional penalty. I think that that would create an inconsistency in the penalties that are available to the courts throughout the UK for what is the same offence.

It is important that there is consistency, transparency and proportionality across the bill and the law on fireworks as a whole. The maximum penalties that are set out in the bill were included following careful consideration of the types of offences in the bill and the levels of penalty that are applicable for other fireworks legislation.