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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 April 2026
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Displaying 1662 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will leave that there, convener, unless anyone else on the panel wants to respond.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I find that interesting, because I think sometimes we treat skills as an alternative to academic things. From what you have just described, it is just a different blend of academic subjects, relative to the other things that you should be learning at school. Is that a fair summary?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

As an add-on—I know that this is a mild tangent, but I do not know where else I would throw this question in—do we also need to tease apart, a little bit, the technical and the vocational sides of things? I think that, sometimes, we say that something is either academic or skills based, and there is also a difference between practical hands-on learning and the applied theoretical side, which is technical. In other countries, they keep those three categories quite distinct. Is that something else that we need to think about? Do we need to make sure that, at school level, we are providing opportunities across those three areas, not taking some binary approach that sees just academic subjects and skills-based subjects?

Stevie, you seem to be nodding.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I think that this has been covered, in a sense, but I am interested in this gap that has been mentioned. Is one of the issues that a foundation apprenticeship is a bit of a commitment and work experience is no commitment at all? Do we need to have something in between? Do we need a bit more structure to work experience—say, a degree of certification—while at the same time ensuring that we do not necessarily have something that involves the same commitment as a full-time course that lasts the whole of an academic year? Is that what we are vaguely reaching towards in this discussion? In Manchester, for example, they have skills boot camps. Could we be looking at those kinds of more structured but shorter-term models and opportunities for young people?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is interesting.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will ask Ian Hughes the same question. We can all appreciate that, if someone has been trained in one trade on a construction site, they are not starting from square 1. Do you take the view that, if you want to train people who already have some work experience, there are bypasses and you can accredit previous experience? What do the different routes that you outlined look like? How can we make the system more efficient?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

You are making the point that we need to top up the apprenticeship model, not take away from it.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will collapse two questions into one before I move on to the point about flexibility. You have set out a number of demand-led factors for employers and learners relating to awareness and access, but do we have the right supply-side initiatives? You have set out quite clear reasons why you might want to increase the number of graduate apprenticeships. Have you been approached by the Scottish Funding Council about how you can expand that number? Are discussions with the Government and others to explore that issue taking place, or are you being left to your own devices?

I will ask a supplementary question. The emphasis has been on professions. Is there a broader point about ensuring that the system—not just graduate apprenticeships but apprenticeships and the skills system more generally—is a bit more focused on technical and professional skill-based areas as well as on the more practical, vocational and technical areas with which we might be more familiar?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is true, but it is also about the content of what providers are providing, with that happening on an employer-by-employer basis. Employers could guarantee the places, but they could buy into a more, in essence, on-the-shelf system, rather than there being bespoke learning. Would that simplify the system?

I will let you answer that, and then I will ask a follow-up question.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I would like to pick up on the lines of questioning from Murdo Fraser and Lorna Slater, particularly in relation to graduate apprenticeships and the flexibility of the system.

Susan Love, you set out quite well some of the potential issues relating to graduate apprenticeships. The number of such apprenticeships has stalled. It has certainly not increased—once a number has been hit, there has been no expansion. What are the solutions in order to increase that number and make universities more willing to be involved?

It has been suggested to me that the fact that graduate apprenticeships are bespoke, in that they are arranged between an institution and an individual employer, might be a limiting factor. Might one solution involve taking a sectoral or profession-based approach instead of using individual employers? Are there other solutions? You were recently on the record as saying that graduate apprenticeships are a “game changer” for the accountancy profession. What do we need to do to ensure that that game-changing effect is more widely felt?