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Displaying 1662 contributions
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
I do not think that the bill is intended to capture PDFs, but I am thinking about PDFs that arise from an electronic system and that contain some sort of record—I am quite sure that people could come up with some clever way of embedding that—and over which there are contested claims. Let us be clear that, as we have heard, the immutability test is not absolutely concrete. At the end of the day, we are just talking about electrons sitting on hard disks, so, rather than it being a hard practical thing that is unalterable in any way, it is a case of notional or theoretical immutability.
Does that mean that the PDFs themselves could become electronic property or digital assets? Is that what you are saying?
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
I am simply saying that, all of a sudden, it could be argued that a system that has been created out of PDFs, which people might think are a world away from what we are talking about, would meet the criteria that are set out in the bill. Is that the case?
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
I will bring in Mr McLardie in a moment, because I know that he is keen to come in.
The bill creates such things but says nothing about how and when they might be exchanged. Whether we like it or not, the ownership and exchange of such things look quite different from the ownership and exchange of regular property. We are bringing them into property law, but we are not setting out how they might be handled, used or exchanged, despite the fact that they are different. We are inadvertently bringing things into property law and then saying nothing about how they should be handled. Is that a fair summary?
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
I am sorry to intervene, but you have touched on some of the points that some of my colleagues might bring up on tokenisation. Thank you very much for those remarks, but I want to bring in Professor Schafer, and I then want to return to the points around terminology—particularly whether the terms “rivalrousness” and “immutability” are well understood.
Professor Schafer, do you have any thoughts on the overall approach? Given that I have flagged that I will ask about those novel concepts, do you also have any contributions on those?
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
Good morning, and welcome to the 35th meeting in 2025 of the Economy and Fair Work Committee. Today, we will hold our third evidence session on the Digital Assets (Scotland) Bill. We have apologies from Lorna Slater, and Sarah Boyack may or may not make an appearance as she is moving amendments in another committee.
We are pleased to have with us this morning Greg McLardie, co-founder and chief executive officer of Two Hands; Professor Jill Robbie, professor of property law and the natural environment at the University of Glasgow; and Professor Burkhard Schafer, co-investigator at the Centre for the Decentralised Digital Economy—DECaDE. I ask our committee members and witnesses for concise questions and answers, to help us get through what previous evidence sessions have shown to be an expansive topic.
I will open up the questions. This is a short bill that essentially has the aim of bringing digital assets into Scots law. Do you feel that the bill takes the right approach, and does the way in which digital assets are defined work? The bill defines digital assets as things that arise from electronic systems and that are rivalrous because of the existence of an immutable record of transactions. It is important to make sure that those concepts work. Do you feel that taking the broad approach of using a narrow bill to simply bring digital assets into Scots law is the right thing to do, or do you feel that the bill should cover other aspects? I am happy to go to whoever would like to answer that question first.
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
What do you think the potential consequences of that are?
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
Greg McLardie, you were referenced, so I will turn to you next. First, the committee has noted that the bill seems to have cryptocurrencies and other such things in mind, yet we have a broad and expansive definition that is certainly not limited to those things. Is that a fair characterisation? Secondly, what are your thoughts in reference to what Professor Robbie has just set out?
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
Mr McLardie, you touched on those two concepts. Are they sufficiently clear? Do they have sufficient purchase on this area of digital assets and electronic property?
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
Thank you. With that, I would like to give the floor to Stephen Kerr.
Economy and Fair Work Committee
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Daniel Johnson
I will hand over to the deputy convener, Michelle Thomson.