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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 April 2025
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Displaying 764 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

It is not about granular detail; it is about a broad sense of what the priorities are, what we are aiming towards and over what timeframe that will be achieved. That would be helpful, and I have shared that point directly with Graeme Dey.

I think that one of the real priorities is upskilling and reskilling. We have an ageing workforce. Because of demographics, we now have almost an inverse pyramid, so essentially we have to focus on older people. However, we still have a focus on skills being about young people leaving school. We have explicit funding thresholds based on age and a focus on apprenticeships, but older workers might not need to do a whole new apprenticeship and, even if they do, people cannot do more than one apprenticeship in their career. Are we missing that part of the agenda?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

I have a couple of questions about pace and focus but, before that, I want to follow on from Willie Coffey’s question. You are right about the importance of colleges, and you posed a question about focus and what we are measuring. A fear has been articulated to me that we are measuring colleges on their ability to produce university graduates. As part of the culture shift, do we need to question that and think about whether colleges are producing vocational qualifications, and perhaps revisit the move away from part-time courses at colleges?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

Thanks very much.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

What is preventing that from happening? Is it just the college funding model aspects that we have rehearsed and which I get? How do we deliver that?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

Thank you.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

It sounds as though you are saying that we should claw back the college funding mechanism, which is based on credits—I will not go down that rabbit hole with the committee this morning—and use a model that seeks to leverage private sector investment. That would require redirecting the money that is put into the college credit system. Is that what you are advocating?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is a big uncertainty when running an organisation, is it not?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will move on to my questions on scale and pace, which in a sense follow on from what Jamie Halcro Johnston asked about. You said that, a year ago, you were a bit frustrated, but we now have the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill. To reflect on the process a little, it is two years since you reported and three years since you were asked to do the review, and it all stemmed from an Audit Scotland report in 2021. Therefore, we will probably be five years on from that report before we see legislation being enacted and progressing, and it is only on the structure. Are you confident that we are moving at sufficient pace to deliver change?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Daniel Johnson

I am amused by that last comment, given some of our discussions about whether we should call them SCQF qualifications or highers. It is a good point.

I want to take you back to your proposal that we merge the funding streams, so that the funding is all in one place, to stop the either/or. We all understand the logic, but is there not a danger that we have been down that path before? The Scottish Funding Council was created through a merger of the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council and the Scottish Further Education Funding Council, yet, when we look at how the funding streams work, that merger did not produce the integration that was hoped for. Is there not a danger that we are pursuing structural change that will not actually deliver that? That way of doing things has been tried before and it did not work.