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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Current session: 14 May 2026 to 31 October 2026
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Displaying 58 contributions

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Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

Just to be clear, was all of that income publicly sourced?

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

But do you understand my point? It is quite difficult for us to scrutinise the effectiveness of public expenditure if we are not 100 per cent clear on what is publicly sourced and what the direct impacts are. I think that what you have been doing is totally valid—indeed, all agencies should be seeking to leverage external or additional funding—but to ensure that we are getting value for the taxpayer, we need to be very clear about which pots your total expenditure fits into. Do you understand my slight confusion here?

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

I want to ask the same question of SOSE. How does it understand and measure direct, indirect and consequential benefits?

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

Great. I should probably draw my questions to a close, because I do not want to take up all the time. However, if there is time, I might come back with a couple of additional questions.

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

So, you measure them.

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

That is a useful clarification, and it would be helpful to be kept up to date on how that progresses.

In terms of addressing the fundamentals and the losses that you are reporting, what is the strategy to get that into a positive place, so that you are making returns, not losses, on your invested capital?

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

Looking at your annual report, I could not immediately identify clear figures for your grant and loan funding. I note that page 23 sets out total HIE investment. However, that figure is more than your total budget, because you included external investment of £78.5 million alongside your total budget of just over £50 million.

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

Thank you for being so clear about your views on the sustainability point, because I think that that is the key question. David Ritchie, your reflection on the losses and how to address them was important, and that is what I would like to focus on.

I want to clarify the key numbers. I should comment that, with regard to what was said earlier, it is relatively easy to find the numbers that I want to look at in your report.

You are in receipt of £119 million of financial transactions money from the Scottish Government. In the past year, you made an operating loss of £117 million in total, and the loss in the previous year was £40 million. However, your balance sheet increased by £80 million. Basically, you are sustainable if you continue to get around £200 million a year from the Government. However, what is your reflection on how you ensure that you do not continue to make losses and that you make gains? What is the strategy? Indeed, what would you do if that £200 million a year of capitalisation stopped? I think that that is the plan.

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

My point, though, is this: unless I am clear about your core funding and what additional funding you received—and, indeed, what amount of that core funding went out the door on operating costs—it is very hard for me to understand whether we are getting value for the taxpayer. In some ways, it is hard for me to give credit to your staff, because I cannot identify how much of that additional £78.5 million is over and above your core expenditure. That figure might well be set out in the report—I probably need to go right the way to the bottom of it—but I am looking at the first number that has been presented, and it is difficult for me to really understand its composition in terms of inputs.

Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2027-28

Meeting date: 6 October 2026

Daniel Johnson

I was going to ask about that, too.