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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 August 2025
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Displaying 989 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

That is not the point that I was making.

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

Will the member take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

I listened carefully to the member’s answer to Graham Simpson. He seemed to say that there is no difference between the 2004 act and this bill in relation to evidence. However, there is a major difference in that people would have had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. I appreciate that we do not wish to have that requirement in the future, but does that not mean that the evidence that will remain will be a bit arbitrary and subjective? How will we prove that there has been a fraudulent inquiry if we are talking about how people feel?

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

It might just be because it is late in the day, but Mr Whittle is surely not suggesting that he is the first person to draw attention to these issues.

21:45  

Meeting of the Parliament

Business Motion

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Rather reluctantly, given what has happened over the past hour, I seek your guidance on scope. Colleagues from across the chamber have had amendments ruled out of scope for the reason that the bill relates to the process of applying for a gender recognition certificate, not to the effect of having a gender recognition certificate. That has left some of us unable to address concerns that constituents have raised, in particular in relation to the fact that the bill, if passed, will allow a much larger cohort of citizens to change their legal sex.

In raising this point of order, I wish to make it clear that I am not challenging your rulings on any individual rejected amendments. Rather, I am asking you to provide clarity, on the record, as to scope, so that members and our constituents who are watching can be very clear about the parameters for our consideration of the bill at this time.

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

Not moved.

Amendment 46 moved—[Sue Webber].

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

Will the cabinet secretary respond to my point that those processes are available at the end, rather than at the beginning, of the GRC application and will she comment on what safeguards are available at the beginning of the process?

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

Yes, I agree with that.

Early assessment would prevent the person from getting a GRC and then others having to intervene at a later stage. I believe that going through the process and then having it challenged at the end would be far more difficult and challenging for the adult concerned. I want to be clear that this in no way suggests that everyone with communication difficulties or a learning disability lacks capacity, and I repeat that it is important that incapacity is not seen as a blanket judgment and, rather, that it is decision specific.

The amendments would benefit applicants who are incapable of understanding by reducing the risk that they are put through complex and stressful legal processes that could have been avoided if more care was taken earlier to avoid a GRC being issued to anyone who is incapable of understanding its effect.

I move amendment 34.

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

I am pleased to have placed on record my concerns about adults with incapacity. Based on what the cabinet secretary has said, particularly about the importance of support and inclusive communication, I will not press my amendments.

Meeting of the Parliament

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Ruth Maguire

I will speak to my amendments 35, 38 and 43 to 45, and in doing so I am thinking of victims of men’s violence—women in all their diversity. I will mention Anne, who wrote to me along with the other females who offered to share their experiences with the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee in order to explain the importance of single-sex spaces. Those spaces were important for their emotional and therapeutic needs as they recovered from the abuse that was exacted on them by men. I am heart sorry that the narrow scope of the bill has meant that the important impact of opening the process to a wider cohort has not been given as full an airing in our Scottish Parliament as it should have.

The purpose of my amendments is to prevent a person with a history of domestic abuse from obtaining a GRC without undergoing further scrutiny before a GRC is granted and to ensure that GRC holders cannot take advantage of a change of identity to evade checks for domestic abuse made under the disclosure scheme, by requiring a specific check on whether a person has a history of domestic abuse before they are granted a GRC, and, if the application is granted, notifying Police Scotland. That would be achieved by requiring a specific check on the person’s history. If they had such a history, the registrar general would take further advice on whether to accept the application, with regulations to set out how that would be done and permitting the involvement of such external input as was deemed appropriate.

Domestic abuse is widely understood to include manipulative and coercive behaviour. These amendments are about perpetrators of that crime.

21:45