Chamber and committees

That would be helpful.

Vivienne Sutherland, in response to one of my colleagues—I cannot remember who it was, as it was a while ago—you spoke about the desire to move from crisis to prevention. You were talking about the post-pandemic period, in particular, but I think that that has been a theme for our public services in Scotland for quite a long time. Can you say a bit more about what needs to happen to create the space to do that?

Waiting for an operation or treatment undoubtedly adds pressure and stress to what is an already stressful time—for some, intolerably so. I appreciate that waiting can exacerbate the problem for a patient who is waiting for treatment, and it brings additional issues such as stress and anxiety. I will never minimise that human impact.

The challenges that Scotland’s NHS faces are not unique, and the significant impact of Covid-19 since 2019 on the normal operation of the NHS cannot be overestimated. In saying that, I am not pretending that everything was perfect prior to the pandemic; I am simply acknowledging the reality of where we are now and the scale of the challenge that we face.

Opposition parties should, of course, put whatever they want in their motions, but it will not be lost on folk that Labour has lodged a motion about NHS pressures and not included a single mention of the impact of the Covid pandemic. All MSPs receive regular contact from their local health boards, so we should all know the impact that it has had. There is no doubt that the pandemic has been the biggest shock that the NHS and health services in Europe and globally have faced. That shock is not unique to Scotland and cannot be ignored. It is clear that the pandemic has impacted on health services across the UK. Acknowledging the reality of where we are is important.

I acknowledge the difficulty that people with long Covid face.

The cabinet secretary outlined a number of steps that the Scottish Government is taking. Ministers have published the national health and social care workforce strategy, which sets out a long-term vision for achieving a sustainable health and social care workforce. The fact that the Scottish Government values the NHS workforce and is committed to investing in it is demonstrable.

The Government has taken a number of steps, but we are short of time, so I will not go through them all. Scotland remains the only country in the UK to have successfully averted NHS strikes. I point that out not by way of self-congratulation but because actions on staffing will make the difference to the running of our NHS and how our citizens experience their care within it.

The recruitment and retention of staff, and the wellbeing of staff, are important to the sustainability of NHS Scotland’s ability to provide efficient services amid the current challenges that it faces. We need to look closely at routes to a rewarding public service career in the NHS and reflect on when previous decisions might have had unintended consequences. For example, where surgeons now specialise at the beginning of their careers, there is a lack of general surgical consultants. That is causing some challenge in my health board area.

In relation to allied health professionals and nursing, we could consider more apprenticeships and earn-as-you-learn and work-type programmes, which could provide progression and development opportunities for existing health and social care staff. That would also be attractive to adults who wish for a career change but for whom four years at university is not an option.

I welcome the minister’s comments on those issues. I know that some work is on-going, but it feels like we need to pick up the pace on this, as it could be beneficial for individual citizens and the healthcare system as a whole.

Good morning. I thank the witnesses for their evidence so far—I appreciate it. My questions were going to be about human rights considerations, but I think that we have already covered that issue quite a bit. However, you can come back in if there is anything further that you wish to say on the matter.

Isabel Vaughan-Spruce, you talked about your arrest for silent prayer. Could you describe exactly what happened in that situation?

Thank you for sharing that. I wonder whether other panel members have any comments on the human rights aspect and the balancing of rights. As I have said, we might have had the opportunity to work some of that out through earlier questioning, but I just want to open it up.

I thank the witnesses for being with us. Do you or your organisations think that there might be wider implications for other places or types of protest?

I am sorry—I am catching your eye, but you are on screen, so I was trying to interrupt you via the system. I wanted to ask about the wider issue. I cannot imagine another situation in which we would even be discussing policing what people are thinking. We have examples quite close to home of protesting that would probably be seen as more mainstream being cracked down on. Do you have any views on that?

That is helpful.

You have referenced it, so you might well have seen that, last week, I asked a Police Scotland representative whether they would be comfortable with policing people’s thoughts in terms of prayer, and they responded clearly that they would not, and that they would not anticipate asking somebody what they were praying about. If the legislation should go ahead, is protection needed through an exemption for silent prayer?