Chamber and committees

I acknowledge all the challenges that Roz McCall is laying out, but the bill that is in front of us today has the purpose of keeping children out of prison. I am interested—are you going to vote against the bill?

Will the member take an intervention?

Will the minister give an indication of the timescale for that work?

I intend to speak to amendment 84 in my name.

Scotland is the first nation in the United Kingdom to incorporate the UNCRC into Scots law, but that pleasing headline is only worth something if it makes a material difference to our children. I think that we all agree on the importance of upholding and promoting the rights of all children, whether they are in direct contact with the system as witnesses, victims or perpetrators, or are impacted because of a family member. I acknowledge the complexity of that and, of course, that children can be both victims and perpetrators of harmful behaviour.

It is fair to say that the balance of the bill, in terms of the competing rights of all children, was greatly improved through the committee process. I appreciate the willingness of colleagues on the Education, Children and Young People Committee to work across party lines. I also acknowledge and thank the Scottish Government for the distance that it has travelled.

The aim of amendment 84 is to place a duty on the Scottish Government to report on the rights of all children who come into contact with the system, with the purpose of ensuring that, should the rights of victims be compromised, the agencies and the Government will be held to account and that it will be clear where changes need to be made to practice.

I acknowledge and accept that my amendment is quite broadly drawn and that it would have implications for all criminal justice agencies as well as the children’s hearings system. That was intentional and was in response to what I have witnessed during the bill’s progression and to the opaque manner in which the sometimes complex ecosystem of human rights is prioritised at the moment. In the Scottish Parliament, we have to get past the easy and pleasing support of specific slogans, campaigns or campaign groups and get really serious about action and accountability. I believe that the reporting duty that I propose would help in that regard.

I appreciate that work is on-going in the area, specifically around the UNCRC and a children’s rights scheme. It would be helpful to know from the Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise how advanced that work is and when it is likely to make a difference to Scotland’s children.

I understand that a number of reporting amendments have been lodged. I will listen carefully to colleagues and, in particular, the minister. If there is an amendment that is more suitable in achieving the aims, I will not move mine.

I am interested in what Martin Whitfield has said about education spokespeople not being at the round table. He is right—there were a lot of justice spokespeople there. Would he agree with me that, on an issue that is as difficult as this, we need people who will champion children? It is difficult to do it, but we need to remain laser focused on children.

I totally understand the complexity of all this. Will the minister say a bit more about the specific problem that we identified in relation to children accepting offence grounds and that appearing on their record in later life? That is the nub of the issue for many of us.

As Victim Support Scotland states in its briefing,

“Significant progress has been made around information which can be shared with victims”.

I, too, am highly supportive of my committee colleague Willie Rennie’s amendments on the issue and of his amendment 8, which seeks to establish a new single point of contact for support services specifically for the children’s hearings system. Victims of offences or behaviour by children who are dealt with in the hearings system currently have access to limited information. During evidence sessions, the committee heard in quite stark terms about the impact that that has and the real consequences for those victims’ safety, recovery and wellbeing. It is crucial that victims can access the information that they need to assist them with any safety planning requirements. The introduction of a single point of contact is therefore very welcome, and I hope that that, along with Willie Rennie’s amendments in group 5, will make a meaningful difference to victims.

I thank the minister for her engagement on and support for my amendment 48, which seeks to place a duty on the Scottish ministers to report on the operation of the new service every two years, following consultation with the key agencies involved in the children’s hearings system. The review will be required to assess the effectiveness of support services and to identify any steps that are needed to improve things as a result of that assessment.

Martin Whitfield’s point is very well made.

As part of the process of ensuring the delivery of a high-quality support service for victims, meaningful assessment and scrutiny of its impact on practice will be critical, as will implementation of the lessons learned. Importantly, as the minister said, the review will be informed by the views of those who run the service and those who use it.

To enable scrutiny and ensure that the rights of victims in the children’s hearings system are kept in focus, a report on each review will be laid before Parliament. I am sure that colleagues across the chamber will welcome the opportunity to take part in that scrutiny and do just that.

Have you made an assessment of the volume of issues that there might be currently?

For the benefit of the record and for setting people’s expectations—it is important that people do not have an incorrect expectation of what you can achieve—who do you anticipate will be, or who should be, in touch with the office to highlight any cases that they feel reflect systemic issues?