Chamber and committees

Again, if you feel that that is not properly articulated, I am happy to hear suggestions from the committee. I completely appreciate the points that you have raised about the importance of having a healthy balanced diet and, with regard to what that looks like, we point to the “Eatwell Guide”.

FSS has also done a lot of work in this area, which highlights that some people are consuming more than the recommended red meat intake while younger people in particular are not getting enough of the nutrients that they need. Again, we need to promote the healthy balanced diet that we all want people to have.

Yes; that is a good point. That is why we have supported what I think is called extra time—I stand to be corrected if that is wrong—which is exactly about what you have said about drawing people into an activity and providing food while they are there. We have provided around £5.5 million to the breakfast clubs to support exactly that. We have also extended that and provided a further £3 million funding to extend the reach of breakfast clubs to about 20,000 more young people.

Of course, as we were saying when we were talking about free school meals, rolling that out universally comes at a huge financial cost, so targeting it and rolling it out in the way that we have, through free school meals, breakfast clubs, and activity-related food provision, is really important. What you have said is absolutely right.

Absolutely.

I completely understand the concerns around the matter, which has been raised directly with us and has come through the evidence that the committee has received as well. However, as I understand it, there are issues with evidence gaps—I believe that the Scientific Advisory Council on Nutrition will undertake another review next year. I think that the issue is that some of the definitions and classifications of ultra-processed foods do not differentiate between white bread and wholemeal bread or account for how you cater for people with allergens who are looking for other alternative food products, which are then more processed. As far as I understand it, there are issues with classifications in the evidence. However, the fact that UPFs might not be in this iteration of the plan does not mean that they would not feature in future iterations of it once that evidence becomes available.

The issue of how we can better support local producers through public procurement is one that we have discussed in the chamber a number of times, and the theme of procurement came through strongly in the evidence that we heard when the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill was being considered. We highlight that aspect in the plan, and a number of pieces of work are under way. We must ensure that we are working within international regulations and our own domestic regulations, but we must do so with a view to ensuring that we help SMEs and smaller producers to access some of the opportunities that are available.

We are trying to do that through a number of initiatives, and there is a positive trajectory in the number of small and medium enterprises that are getting contracts and the amount that is being spent on those. There is also the supplier development programme. Through those initiatives, we are working with such businesses to ensure that they are in a position in which they feel that they can bid for some of the opportunities that are available, as well as highlighting what can be done in procurement to break things down into smaller lots and smaller geographic areas to make it easier for smaller producers to access the process.

I do not know whether Jo Mitchell has anything to add.

Yes, we are very much alive to that and, indeed, concerns about certain issues that have recently come up in that respect. In those cases of people losing contracts that they had, I would just point out that they were able to be awarded those contracts in the first place. Through our work on public procurement, there is the ability at the moment to help local suppliers and producers, and I hope that, when we have finalised our national plan, local authorities and health boards will, in the work that they take forward, have a strong focus on these things to ensure that they continue in the direction that we all want with the establishment of strong, local, resilient supply chains.

At the moment, the team’s focus is largely on producing the national good food nation plan. However, that work has been really helpful and informative because it has shown the amount of work that needs to be done to develop a plan, how long it might take and the resources that local authorities and health boards might need.

From the point when we commence section 10 of the 2022 act, local authorities and health boards will have 12 months to develop and produce their plans. We want to commence the act in a timeframe that we know local authorities and health boards are comfortable with. Discussions are very much on-going between officials and local authorities as to when would be the most appropriate time to commence that section, because we want to ensure that they have the time and resources in place to be able to deliver on it.

Regarding the plans themselves, guidance has been produced that sets out the legislative expectations that local authorities and health boards will have to meet, but dialogue is very much on-going.

Tracy is leading on that work, so she might want to say more.

That is hugely important because you are absolutely right that culture does not change overnight. We must bring people with us on the journey. We have undertaken extensive engagement and I like to think that it is helping.

Procurement is hugely important, and we touch on that in the good food nation plan. I believe that we have the potential through public procurement to make an impact in the wider food system and food environment that we have just talked about.

Ultimately, the population health framework will have to deliver on the outcomes that we want to see. Even if there are no specific references to procurement in the population health framework, the overall health system will no doubt have to deliver on that as well, because that is what we have set out in the good food nation plan, if that makes sense.