Chamber and committees

I hope that we are doing that with the outcomes that we have seen, the policies that are outlined and the actions that we are taking on that. It is also important—I think that we have referenced it in the plan—to look at all the different types of initiatives that are happening across Scotland. It comes back to the point about how we embed, develop and encourage wider good practice. We want to encourage and enable community-supported agriculture—allotments, community growing and some of the local initiatives that are happening in communities—as much as possible, so that we are getting those small local supply chains.

In my job, I see examples of such projects all the time, particularly in relation to the community right to buy. In city centres, I have visited groups that have taken on ownership of areas of ground, the food from which supplies the local community. Those projects are not only about food supply but about wider community engagement. Things that come off the back of that, such as cookery classes, lead to wider community cohesion.

However, the big suppliers and producers are also important. For me, it is not a case of big versus small. It is a question of ensuring that we encourage small producers. A lot of that comes back to what we are doing in relation to agricultural reform and how, through the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill, we can create more opportunities for people to own and access land and help new entrants to join the next generation of farmers. Through the work that is being done on public procurement, which is being driven through local authority plans and health board plans, we are helping to build and sustain strong local supply chains.

I think that that is fundamental to the whole plan. We are talking about food, and we need people to produce it. Everything hinges on our farmers and our fishermen. Ultimately, we want to support our primary producers to ensure that we maintain the food supply. That will help to sustain the local supply chains, which are the linchpin of what we are doing in policy development.

That goes back to some of Emma Harper’s points. As we work through our agricultural reform programme, we are considering what the future support system will look like and what support we will provide. The outcomes that are set out in the good food nation plan will all be part of that. You will see that agriculture is heavily referred to in the plan as it stands, because we all want people to have access to high-quality, healthy, nutritious food and we also talked about the importance of that during the passage of the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Act 2024, because it all ties together.

That is an interesting question. The act says that we must consider the views of the food industry and I think it is important to hear all the voices. A wide variety of stakeholders have shared their views with the consultation or submitted evidence to the committee and they are all equally important to me. We must ensure that none of those voices feels that they have been drowned out and that everyone feels that they can get behind the plan.

I understand that there is criticism and that some people feel that there could be more in the plan or that we have not quite got it right first time. This is the first plan, but it is important to me that we have a balance and I would be interested to hear whether the committee thinks that it is not quite right or that there is more to consider.

I certainly feel that we have it right, but I am happy to reflect on the plan if others feel that the balance is not quite right. It is important that I do not engage with just one or two actors but ensure that I am hearing as representative a spectrum of views as possible.

I do not know whether Jules Goodlet-Rowley has anything to add from a health perspective, but I think that we are taking forward some important work in the population health framework and there is also the work that will be done through the diet and healthy weight delivery plan as well as the strong action that we are taking on alcohol. Therefore, I do not see any particularly overt influence affecting the plan as it stands, but I do not know whether Jules has anything to add on engagement.

There have been various iterations since the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014, and further regulations and guidance have flowed from the act that are about embedding some of those values.

I do not know whether Jo Mitchell wants to add to that.

I recognise that there are concerns around that. We are waiting for further publication from our analytical colleagues, which will provide more information around the indicators and the framework, so I am happy to send that to the committee when that is available. We will be monitoring closely—we will have the indicators set out in the plan, which will help form the baseline of the monitoring framework that we establish.

Regarding the food commission’s capacity, it is not fully up and running yet. The commission has three members and a chair, but we are still in the midst of appointing a chief executive, and there will be a wider team to support the commission’s work, so it is not necessarily fair to write off the capacity that it will have just yet. As set out in the legislation, it will have an absolutely critical role and be able to offer advice to ministers. The review periods that we have set out and the scrutiny role that the commission will have mean that we will be very strongly held to account on the policies that we have set out in order to reach the outcomes. As part of that, if the policies are not working and not reaching those outcomes, we also have to set out what needs to change and which other pieces of work we will do.

We have been quite transparent that the monitoring framework is not perfect. We know that we have data gaps and areas that are missing, but we have highlighted those as areas that we will continue to work on. For example, we have asked the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission to do some work in relation to animal health and welfare, so that we know what the targets or indicators for those areas might look like. With any new information, we need to collect the data that enables us to monitor those areas. That is very much a work in progress, but we have been quite transparent about the work that needs to be done. We will be held to account and the monitoring will all be transparent.

I think that some of the plans that are being talked about in relation to public diners and their wider impact are really exciting; they seek to deliver on the outcomes that we have set out in the plan, and I am really interested to see where they go. I hope that we can build on and support the roll-out of some of those initiatives.

You talked about mental health, which is a really important element of the plan. It is one of the areas in the plan where we have identified that we do not have enough data and need to collect more. That will enable us to consider whether to develop indicators and how we can monitor those. We have picked up on areas in the plan in which we need to do more work.

I appreciate that the earlier session ran over so, in the interests of time, I am happy to go straight to questions, if the committee would prefer that.

Those are really interesting issues to get into, and the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and I discussed them in a round-table meeting on diet and nutrition earlier this year.

I do not think that it is a case of one or the other. If people think that the focus is not quite right in the way that the plan is framed, that is where the committee’s scrutiny is really important. We are more than happy to listen and to see whether any changes need to be made. Having basic skills is important, but we also have a wider opportunity to educate, and we do so much work on that. In my portfolio, we support the work of the Royal Highland Education Trust, which does incredible work in getting kids out on the farm and understanding where their food comes from.

There are huge opportunities in relation to wider skills, and we could be doing more on that. There are many opportunities and careers in our wider food and drink sector. We need to consider whether there are opportunities that we can build into education settings to expose young people to those areas, so that they think of those as realistic careers going forward. There are areas where we know that we have skills shortages and where we could be doing more.

I am keen to hear the committee’s views on some of the evidence that you have heard. However, I think that we have the balance right. It is not one or the other. I do not think that doing one will fix all the issues that we have. As with most of the issues that the committee has been discussing this morning, it is about how we tackle that in the round.