Chamber and committees

Clearly, there is an opportunity for members’ bills to complement the circular economy bill, so good luck to Murdo Fraser. I think that colleagues are aware of my interest in ecocide prevention.

We have talked about small-scale fly-tipping. As MSPs, we all know about its impact on our communities. However, as Murdo Fraser was saying, the major challenge is organised crime gangs. The “Disclosure” programme on the BBC, which I think we mentioned more than a year ago to the previous cabinet secretary, Michael Matheson, set out how thousands of tonnes of waste is being buried illegally across Scotland right now.

Just a few weeks ago, SEPA put out a press release about the scourge of illegal sites for end-of-life vehicles. SEPA believes that there are more than 100 unauthorised ELV sites across Scotland, hidden in plain sight. We all know about the impact of that. One insider in a criminal network told the “Disclosure” programme that waste was the new drugs and that these waste gangs are also involved in moving around drugs, weapons and other illegal items. SEPA knows about that and has made it a priority, along with the ELV sites, but SEPA does not really seem to have the resources to do anything meaningful about it.

To go back to the circular economy bill, are you concerned about whether SEPA and other regulators will have the resources and capacity to do anything? From what we are hearing about the scale of this, it is an emergency. A litter and fly-tipping emergency has already been declared and SEPA is clearly very concerned but it does not seem to be able to do anything about it. Is that a concern that you share?

In its recent press release, SEPA talked about the role of Scotland’s serious organised crime task force and the joint unit for waste crime. I do not know much about the latter, but the public will find that interesting, because there has been a lot of discussion about the need for behaviour changes on the part of individuals and about the possible use of sanctions—or sticks—against individuals at a time when gangs are operating at a national and international level. Even though those gangs are causing havoc in all our communities and destroying the environment, no one is going after them in the way that we need. We sometimes get pushback from the public if they feel that we are going after individuals rather than the big gangs.

Phoebe Cochrane, can you come in on the opportunity to engage in the process?

Thank you.

Jackie Dunbar’s initial questions touched on general performance and the public’s general perception of Scottish Water. I want to ask about the perception around sewage pollution, which is an issue that we raised with Scottish Water last week. That is an area of concern to communities and environmental groups. I am keen to hear from the panel what impact the local concerns and media reports are having on consumer perceptions and, importantly, trust in Scottish Water. I will start with Consumer Scotland.

It would be good to hear more about the research. I am sure that you will not want to get into specific community examples. However, in some of the emails and letters that we get, people are very concerned about the impact of sewage on human health, nature and the environment. We have heard from Scottish Water that it does not accept how things are being characterised in the media and by some consumers and community interest groups. Is there a gap in the research and, if so, how can we address that? If there is a division between Scottish Water saying that it does not recognise those concerns and people getting increasingly vocal, how could we resolve that? I will put that to Fraser Stewart.

Thank you. That is really informative. What is Alan Sutherland’s perspective on that?

Thank you for very eloquently taking us through some of the big challenges and possible solutions. I will not go into that too much, because I know that we do not have time to do so.

To go back to Scottish Water, notwithstanding some of the wider challenges, which are not all within Scottish Water’s control, we have a potentially growing problem around CSOs and people are concerned about human waste ending up in our watercourses and the impact of that on public health and the environment. Scottish Water is saying that it is not getting its lawyers on to the media, and I asked it about that last week. I asked whether the stories are so wildly exaggerated that it is going to get its lawyers involved, but it is not doing that. We do not want to have a breakdown in public trust and confidence.

As good as it is to have all the research, I am sure that the team at Consumer Scotland has other things that it would prefer to be researching. What advice would you give to Scottish Water on speaking to communities and doing that education work, and ultimately doing better because we need better outcomes?

I had a broad question about net zero delivery and whether the panel agrees with Scottish Water’s assessment that it remains on track to deliver its net zero commitments.

I do not want to get in the middle of that debate.

Thank you for your written submission. On powers for single-use charges, your written submission emphasises the need to consider impacts on people on lower incomes and vulnerable people. How should single-use charges be introduced, and how should they be balanced with other measures or supports to ensure that they are fair?