Chamber and committees

I am grateful to my Scottish Labour colleague Katy Clark for securing this debate. From listening to Ms Clark and other speakers, it is very clear why the debate is so necessary.

I am also grateful to Maggie Chapman for hosting last week’s FBU Scotland event, which launched the “Firestorm” report. For me, “Firestorm” is more than a report; it is a call to action, and Government must act. The truth is that firefighters do not feel supported or valued. Scotland’s firefighters feel abandoned and ignored. After last week’s First Minister’s question time, I fear that they will feel more frustrated than ever.

To recap, last week, hundreds of firefighters, FBU members and other supporters gathered outside the Parliament and demanded that MSPs and ministers listen to them, understand and act. Instead, we heard in the chamber the same predictable spin from the First Minister. We need honesty, because the cuts are costing lives.

The reality is that there has been £57 million of real-terms cuts since 2012-13; 1,200 firefighter jobs have been scrapped; response times have increased; five control rooms have been closed; and an increasing number of fire appliances are unavailable. I am glad that the “Firestorm” report has been published, because that is not the voices of ministers or MSPs; it is the voice of serving FBU Scotland members. I urge all colleagues to read it, because it is about a menu of cuts, lack of recruitment, crisis in retained service, decline in training standards, and the necessity of responding to the climate emergency. All that and more has created the perfect conditions for a devastating firestorm.

Like colleagues, I am here because the issue is affecting constituents in my local community now. Mercedes Villalba talked about Dundee; in my case, it is about Hamilton, where we have lost our temporary appliance. We do not know when we will get it back, and that is having an impact on crews and their families right now—Richard Leonard can also speak to that. We had a devastating fire in East Kilbride recently—six homes have been destroyed and six families have been put at the heart of this issue. Luckily, no lives were lost, but we have heard that the cuts have had an impact on response times, so public safety is being compromised.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is not well equipped to respond to the demands of the climate emergency. Our firefighters need appropriate personal protective equipment and other equipment and training to tackle wildfires. We need to expand capacity to deal with the predicted increase in flooding incidents. The capital budget must be increased significantly if the service is to meet the demands of net zero targets.

I know that members of the FBU are proud of the work that they do, but are they proud of us? I do not think so. There should be no ifs, no buts and no more fire service cuts.

I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for her response and for recently meeting me and the Scottish Trades Union Congress women’s committee to discuss some of these issues.

Today, I was pleased to attend an event in Parliament, sponsored by Jim Fairlie MSP, celebrating Scotland’s school meals and front-line caterers. Speeches by Assist FM and Food for Life Scotland reinforced the importance of feeding and nourishing young minds.

With the national good food nation plan coming to consultation, does the cabinet secretary agree that the roll-out of universal free school meals has never been more important? Can she update Parliament on when universal free school meals will be piloted in secondary schools?

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of any link between nutrition and behaviour in its work to address violence in schools. (S6O-02635)

Good morning. I thank the committee for its on-going work. It has been helpful to see the recent responses from the Scottish Government. Unfortunately, Karen McKeown cannot be here in person today, but her plea is for the committee to keep the petition open, because, in her view and that of many of my constituents, the situation on the front line and in communities is getting worse, not better.

We all welcome the Scottish Government’s on-going interest and commitment. The strategies and frameworks are at a very high level, as they often are, and are fuelled by good intentions, but I am afraid that there is an on-going disconnect, because the resources that we need in our communities for our health services, for local government, which also has a role to play, and for the third sector are not there. The capacity is not there, training has not been kept up to date and the workforce is burnt out.

I was struck by Karen McKeown’s words in one of her submissions when she talked about the time when her partner Luke was in crisis before he died by suicide. She talked about the really hard time that she had in trying to keep him safe. We must consider the impact on family, friends and colleagues.

Luke died at the end of 2017, but, in the few years since then, we have had the pandemic and its impact on citizens in Scotland. Having come through that, people then had to deal and cope with the cost of living crisis. Our public services are on their knees like never before. There needs to be a deep dive into mental health services to understand why so many people are getting to crisis point and why, despite all the good intentions around prevention, the system is not working well enough.

Some voices that could inform that deep dive include those of people with direct experience—those who have been in crisis themselves or have lost loved ones to suicide. We need to hear more directly from those who are on the front line. With respect, I do not mean chief executives and senior people at board level; I mean the people in teams who have caseloads that would simply make your eyes water. Police Scotland also has a big story to tell. Often, when our constituents are in crisis, it is the police who are called and it is police officers in uniform who come to the door. They provide a really important service, but their being called is another sign that the system is not working.

To bring it back to a human level—I am sure that this is familiar to all committee members—I point out that one life lost to suicide is, of course, one too many; we hear too many tragic stories in our own areas of people losing their life. When I go on to my local Facebook groups, I increasingly see neighbours in my community crowdfunding to cover funeral costs for people who have lost their life and have left families behind. I worry about the impact on the children and loved ones who are left behind, because so much trauma is being stored up.

Again, I pay tribute to Karen McKeown. I know from the Government submissions that it is grateful to her for lodging the petition. When the former cabinet secretary, who is now our First Minister, gave evidence to the committee—I have had discussions with him—he was very moved by not just Karen’s experience but her commitment to ensuring that we prevent suicides and prevent other families from going through that pain and suffering.

There is more work to be done. I am pleased that the Government is committed to further monitoring and to doing what it can, but the problems in the health service and society started before the pandemic. We need to have conversations that are quite often difficult to hear with people who are on the front line, working in every part of the NHS. I mentioned Police Scotland, but social workers also have important stories and solutions to share. It is not just about stories; it is about trying to find solutions. We know that, for people who experience poor mental health, there is still a lot of stigma. We know that that interfaces with substance use issues, and parliamentarians care a lot about such issues.

The petition has been on the committee’s books for quite some time, but I know that Karen McKeown and the many people and groups that she is in contact with appreciate it. As we have seen, the experience can differ across the country. We have different models of care. Those are appropriate if they meet local needs, but, too often, people feel as though they are falling through the cracks of a broken system. Basically, there is a postcode lottery across Scotland.

I thank the committee for allowing me to say a few words on behalf of Karen McKeown and my other constituents who have a deep interest in the issue.

What is your understanding of the role that ministers played in setting those deadlines or reviewing those deadlines?

Good morning. In your most recent written update, you have highlighted the effects of Covid lockdowns on construction progress, but previous updates, such as the one from July 2021, highlighted how effectively the yard dealt with Covid. What proportion of the six-year delay is attributable to Covid and to those lockdown periods?

There has been reference to a shortfall of skilled labour also contributing to delays. Can you expand on the spread of skills previously and your view of that now?

Does that mean that the impact of Covid has previously been underestimated?

You made an interesting point about remote working having a negative impact, but others might say that shipbuilding is an international industry and it is quite established that contractors work around the globe and are able to communicate effectively. Is that something that you recognise and agree with?

Indeed, and you have a plan in place for that. Looking at your most recent written update, I see that it mentions that designers were

“set an impossible timeline and deliverables.”

Who set the timeline, why was it impossible and what effect does it have on costs and delivery?