Chamber and committees

I join other members in thanking my colleague Richard Leonard and congratulating him on securing the debate. I congratulate him, too, on his passionate speech, which, from where I was sitting, sounded like a call to action amid the on-going and escalating industrial action in our vital further education sector.

I say to members here that if they are getting fed up with having to go along to picket lines and listen to members of the EIS-FELA union, they should think what it must be like for that union’s members, who are having to sacrifice pay and sometimes feel as though they are letting their students down. However, as we have heard, the students have their backs. If we are fed up with the situation, we should remember what it must be like for the lecturers.

Many of us have been out on those picket lines, and continue to go there. In my case, recently, the picket lines have been on the Motherwell campus of New College Lanarkshire, and up in East Kilbride for South Lanarkshire College. I see the same faces when I do regular visits. Recently, when I was at a graduation ceremony for South Lanarkshire College, in the setting of the Town House in Hamilton, where I was on the stage and could see everything that was happening, I could really witness the relationships, the connection and the love among the lecturers and FE staff and their students.

As other members have said, further education is not just about giving people their first chance, or even their second one; it is about giving them the lifelong opportunities that they need if they are to lead happy and fulfilled lives. It is also absolutely about our economy and skills, and about ensuring that we function and progress as a society. I am, therefore, not surprised when I hear that employers in my region of Central Scotland champion our local colleges. That is why I was pleased to sponsor a recent event in the garden lobby to shine a light on apprenticeship week and to hear from employers, apprentices and everyone in our community who sees the value in apprenticeships.

In the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, which I sit on and attend every week, I hear about the importance of skills and training, and about the need to have proper community wealth building and to achieve a just transition. Everything comes back to further education and skills.

I want to mention some of the people behind the issues that we are debating. I am grateful to Fulton MacGregor for reminding us how long these debates and disputes have been going on for. When I was at New College Lanarkshire just a couple of weeks ago, I was able to catch up with Gabriel, who is one of the lecturers there. He has been out on the picket line for eight years and, for about seven of those years, his young son, Julio, has been on the picket line with him. They have recently made a video. I am not sure whether EIS-FELA members have put that online yet, but, if so, I appeal to everyone to watch it, because you watch a wee boy in the video whose childhood is passing by—yet here we are.

We hear colleagues suggest that the issue is perhaps just too complex. If there are ministers or people in positions of power who are finding it too hard, I would say to them that, given that there might be a reshuffle tomorrow, they should offer their resignation. To whoever is in charge of this situation, I say, “Do not walk on by, do not walk away and do not shut your door”. A couple of weeks ago, EIS-FELA members were in the Parliament in a room off of the garden lobby, and I regret to say that I witnessed the minister walk on by, even though those people had turned up to say, “Come and chat to us—we are here to find solutions”. Whether we are a minister or a back-bench MSP, we all have a duty to find those solutions.

I am glad that we are having this debate today, and there will be another debate tomorrow, but the time for talking must surely come to an end. We need action.

Fulton MacGregor has been very generous to constituents and FE workers with his time, but does he agree that this is not a communication problem but a political problem? Governments make political choices, and they are making the wrong ones. Can we not all work together to get the minister to finally do something today? Eight years is a very long time.

We could go on the buses together in Manchester.

Good morning. That was a helpful opening statement, minister. Thank you for the clarification.

I note the information about the existing powers and what the instrument will do, but will more funding be made available to transport authorities? Having powers is really important, but we know that there are big challenges for bus services right across Scotland. I am thinking particularly about the Strathclyde area, where many of my constituents live. There are powers to run bus services and existing powers to subsidise services, but, when I speak to transport authorities, they say that they do not have the budget to do that. What can be expected in the months and years ahead?

That is encouraging.

Okay. Fair enough. I am sure that the committee will try its best to help you to persuade colleagues that investment in bus services is absolutely crucial to Scotland’s economy but also to achieving net zero.

We know that Strathclyde Partnership for Transport’s current consultation on its approach to bus transport includes potentially setting up a municipal bus company. Would ministers support that approach?

I was feeling inspired listening to my colleague Bob Doris. Given that there are real challenges around public finances and we know that investment is crucial but that being able to unlock it is not easy, are you and your colleagues having discussions with colleagues elsewhere? It is not just about what we talk about in the Parliament. Can we learn from what is happening in, for example, Greater Manchester and the work that is being led by Andy Burnham that is a result of lots of campaigning and cross-party working? Are you building that into your fact finding?

It is good that we live in a democracy and in a free country, where John Mason can come to Parliament and have his say. However, I disagree with Mr Mason and others who have, like him, joined protests. It is one thing to hold those views—he absolutely has the right to oppose abortion healthcare—but, as the committee heard in evidence and as we are hearing in speeches today, it is having a real impact on women in Scotland right now. I hope that we will hear more from their voices.

I join others in thanking Gillian Mackay and her team for the hard work that has led to where we are today. Even with the support of the Scottish Government, it is really difficult to progress a member’s bill to stage 1. It is a huge undertaking, so I thank her for getting us to this point.

Of course, none of it would have been possible without the award-winning and groundbreaking Back Off Scotland campaign, which was launched in 2020, before the current parliamentary session. The action is long overdue. I think that we would all agree that the best ideas often come from grass-roots campaigners and people with direct experience of injustice and inequality. The Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill exists because of the courageous and tenacious young women behind Back Off Scotland. It is an honour to know them—in particular, Lucy Grieve and Alice Murray, whom I am now proud to call my friends. Alice Murray and Lily Roberts are just two of the young women who have bravely shared their stories with the public and with Parliament—stories of running the gauntlet and facing loud chants or silent judgment. It does not matter how quiet or noisy the protest is—it has the same impact on women.

In the time for which Back Off Scotland has been campaigning, those young women have got a bit older, and Lucy recently got married. In that time, the protests have become more common. There has been a real escalation and, as Rona Mackay said, the activity has become more sinister. We have seen that at the Sandyford clinic, where people tried to board up access to the clinic. We have seen people gathering in huge numbers—sometimes more than 100 people—at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital in Glasgow. I have seen it in my parliamentary region, Central Scotland, where people have gathered at University hospital Wishaw—something that had not happened before, to my knowledge.

Like others, I am grateful to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for all its hard work, and to those who gave evidence. Those of us who are involved in the cross-party group on women’s health also heard directly from people with lived experience. As Meghan Gallacher said—we share the same region—we have had many emails from people with all shades of opinions, which are really important for us to hear. The testimony of women, their families and healthcare workers is really important. We have also heard from Dr Sandesh Gulhane, who can bring to bear his professional experience.

However, as my colleague Carol Mochan mentioned, there is also a trade union issue. I welcome the support from the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the settled position of the trade union movement in Scotland, which backs Gillian Mackay and her bill. The harassment is targeting not just those who might be accessing healthcare services, but those who deliver the services. Many of those healthcare workers might have had an abortion or experienced trauma in relation to pregnancy or pregnancy loss. That is the point: we just do not know what people have been through when they go through the clinic doors.

As Engender points out in its briefing,

“Anti-choice harassment outside abortion services in Scotland and the UK has escalated in recent years”,

and the activity is undertaken with the aim of obstructing, harassing, intimidating and stigmatising those who are accessing healthcare and those who are involved in the provision of healthcare. At the heart of the matter are the really important issues of bodily autonomy and access to sexual and reproductive rights. I am very clear that gendered harassment and intimidation are forms of violence against women and girls, and that they have to end. [Interruption.] Excuse me—I am struggling with a sore throat today.

I have made points about workers, about trade unions and about everyone being able to come to Parliament and have their say. In my final seconds, I want to mention Dr Greg Irwin, who has been a real ally to the campaigners. He is a paediatric radiologist who works at the Royal hospital for children in Glasgow and has often talked about the visible nature of the protests and the noise in the hospital environment—even though it is a big hospital, people can hear it. He has also talked about bullying of women in NHS hospitals today. That cannot go on.

I agree with colleagues that no bill will ever be the complete or finished article at stage 1. I welcome the on-going scrutiny of the bill and I will be happy to play my part. I urge all colleagues to back the bill at stage 1.

Apologies. The technology does not appear to be working.

I am enjoying Tess White’s speech. She is also an active member of the women’s health cross-party group. Does Tess White agree that, although it has taken quite a long time to get to this point, we have the benefit of being able to look at the legal situation in Northern Ireland? We had the Supreme Court ruling and, obviously, there is legislation in other parts of the UK. Is it helpful to colleagues in the Scottish Parliament when we are trying to get the bill to the next stage that we are not the first to do this?

I refer to my voluntary entry in the register of members’ interests, as I receive support from Stop Ecocide International.

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the report, “Scoping a Domestic Legal Framework for Ecocide in Scotland”, which was published by the Environmental Rights Centre for Scotland. (S6F-03060)