Chamber and committees

I did think that Graham Simpson was more of a carrot rather than stick kind of guy. However, I am interested in hearing whether there are examples in other acts of this Parliament where such a mechanism is used. Has Mr Simpson any examples of the Scottish Government being fined for missing targets?

There is nothing odd about you, Graham.

I think that it probably would be easy to set up an app. My question is about proposed section 14(1)(b), which relates to

“reporting any incident of unlawful disposal of waste.”

You have said that an app could be a one-size-fits-all solution, but would it take into account that different local authorities have different set-ups in relation to their staffing teams, as you will appreciate given your background in local government? Would it be as easy as you are suggesting?

Your point about information was well made. You might be familiar with the PickupMyPeriod app, which works nationally but is much more about providing information about the different public buildings where people can collect free period products. It is easier to keep that app up to date because it is based on location.

Are you concerned that including the provision on reporting could raise public expectations about getting a response to such reports? Would the response come nationally, or would it be for the local authority to respond?

Good morning. Amendment 144 aims to increase the uptake of reusable nappies by requiring ministers to set targets for that. Other amendments that I have lodged in a later group would provide the means by which we can increase uptake, but amendment 144 is about the target.

Anyone who followed stage 1 and heard the evidence on the bill will have heard me talk about the issue and will know that I am passionate about it. More than 160 million disposable nappies go to landfill every year in Scotland alone; the figure for the UK is around 3 billion. On average, each baby or toddler will go through about 5,000 disposable nappies. It is clearly a huge issue for the circular economy, but it is also about how we can provide families with choice to help them to save money.

I am grateful to the Scottish Government for the time that it has spent working with me on the proposals. That included a fact-finding visit to see North Ayrshire Council’s trailblazing birth-to-potty scheme, which is a good initiative whereby the council works with waste officers and other local partners to give parents choice and access to free reusable nappies. The scheme has been going for about five years and it is cost neutral. The council can save money on landfill and the scheme does not cost it any additional money. That is the principle behind it.

The Scottish Government is also doing good work with the baby box, which gives people access to a voucher that they can redeem to try out reusable nappies and see whether they like them. However, as I will perhaps talk about when we get to a later section, other support is needed around education and awareness. As Sarah Boyack said, people need awareness, but this is not about forcing people to use reusable nappies. I want to make that clear. As a parent who has used them, I am a big fan, but they are not for everyone.

I agree with a lot of the sentiments behind amendment 15, but I wonder whether it is possible to strike a more optimistic note. We know that, with the moratorium on new incinerators, there is a question about the legacy infrastructure, but we are going to see a reduction in the waste that is going to incineration. I share the concerns about what we are doing now on reuse and recycling, but we have already seen a big shift in policy because we have introduced a block on new incinerators. Did you take that into account when you thought about the need for your amendments to the bill? Does that give you any comfort that there will be a different approach from the local authorities that have been too reliant on incinerators?

I will in a moment. I am trying to remember the figures. I was going to talk about them later. It is estimated that switching to reusables can save families between £600 and £1,000 a year, or more.

Some parents, including parents we met in North Ayrshire, take a hybrid approach. They might use a disposable nappy at night time or if they are going on holiday or are out and about. I hope that, as our communities and businesses become more supportive of the circular economy, we will see better facilities for these things. I was about to say to the minister that there is some similarity with the work that we did together as back benchers with the Government on reusable period products.

I am happy to hear from Maurice Golden.

Amendment 153 would add provisions for the redistribution of unsold textile goods by public bodies and businesses. That would come in under section 8. I have already touched on the carbon implications of textile waste and the impact of Scotland’s waste on people overseas.

Amendment 154 has a similar aim to amendment 153. It would place a requirement in the legislation under section 8 to include provisions for the recycling, reuse and repair of unsold textiles. That recognises that not all textiles will be suitable for businesses and public bodies to redistribute, and it builds in flexibility to provide for other means of disposing of unsold textiles while ensuring compliance with the waste hierarchy.

Amendments 155 and 156 are connected in their aim, which is to prohibit the exportation of unsold textile goods.

I will briefly mention Douglas Lumsden’s amendment 88. He makes some important points. Through my extensive research into the enforcement of existing regulations in the course of my member’s bill on ecocide, I am very aware that the funding of enforcement bodies is important. I am happy to support that amendment.

That is a fair question, and you made some helpful comments. Overall, it is about increasing the use of reusable nappies and reducing reliance on disposable nappies. Later amendments that are not in the current group cover different schemes that could be introduced, but I have modelled this on the North Ayrshire Council example. In Parliament, we are always keen to hear about good practice and the amazing things that are going on in local government, and North Ayrshire Council has been quietly working on this for five years.

The scheme was brought in by a Labour administration and it survived a change in administration—it is a Scottish National Party-led council now. I met the environment convener, and they are very proud of what the council is doing across the political divide, because it is a really practical way to help families. Some people engage with the scheme because they want to be more sustainable, and for others it is about trying to save money. We need such practical schemes that are free of any sort of judgment. People are not going to be policing this and asking others, “Did you use disposables some of the time?”

The purpose of the group of amendments is to set targets, and that is all about being able to monitor and encourage these things and see where we are making progress. I note that the Scottish Government has already agreed to carry out some research on the matter. I am probably stealing the minister’s lines here, but the James Hutton Institute is conducting some research on the barriers that exist.

Maurice Golden is right, and it is great that we have an expert with us who has been working on this for two decades—I did not think that he was quite as old as that. Support used to be in place. My daughter is now almost 18, but I used reusable nappies a long time ago and, although we did not get any support for doing so, I remember reading information about some of the potential health benefits, including not being exposed to some of the chemicals in disposable nappies.

You have said that you want the body to be independent of Government and that you think the funding flow is important. Are we being asked to support something that is fully independent in its remit and funding model, or would you be comfortable with a body that would be set up to be independent, but which would be fully or partly funded by the Scottish Government?

You already answered my question in part when you clarified that the intention is for the new body to be independent and not funded by the Scottish Government, but what do you anticipate will be the funding model? Have you discussed the idea with the UK Climate Change Committee?

I am sorry; I cannot see Graham’s face at this moment. My question was whether Mr Simpson has a preference. I know that he has two amendments and that he is offering us a choice, but does he have a strong preference?