Chamber and committees

Good morning. I thank the convener for that very helpful summary of the journey that Karen McKeown has been on and of where we are currently. I would like to say that things are improving in addressing Scotland’s mental health crisis, but, sadly, they are not.

It is timely that we are meeting today, following world suicide prevention day yesterday. My thoughts are with everyone across Scotland who has lost a loved one to suicide and with those who are struggling today with their mental health. Help is available but, sadly, there is not always enough help when people need it. It is still very difficult to access services.

On the point about data, Karen McKeown and others continue to do their own research and to ask questions. I will not repeat the information in your packs, but the responses to Karen’s recent freedom of information request show that there are still gaps in how data is collected.

I have written to NHS Lanarkshire to ask why it is not recording waiting times for adult mental health referrals and on-going waiting times, but I have not had a response. I do not say that to embarrass NHS Lanarkshire. The convener had his finger on the pulse when he talked about Karen’s concerns about staff burnout and wellbeing. I will not give a lot of details but, when I recently attended an appointment with a constituent and one of their family members, I was very aware, in the course of that interaction, that the NHS staff involved in trying to help constituents were extremely stressed and burned out.

I support Karen in pushing the Parliament and the Government for an independent review. I heard what the convener said about the demand on the committee’s time, but, if the committee had time, it would be good if it could go out and speak to staff on a confidential basis, because I am picking up that staff are afraid to speak out. I know that trade unions are doing an excellent job in supporting staff, but we are not hearing from those on the front line.

We need more data and to help people before they fall into crisis. I recently read in Third Force News that some charity leaders have said that, in Scotland, we now have not a mental health crisis but a scandal, because we know that more action is required.

I want to leave the committee with this. From reading some briefings, I know that the Scottish Government has committed to increasing the suicide prevention budget to £2.8 million by the end of this parliamentary session, but experts say that that is nowhere near enough and that there will be more suicides and more people in crisis. I also hear appeals for an early review of the 10-year national suicide prevention strategy, which is a joint endeavour between the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. There are good things in the strategy but, without resources, we will not see progress.

I continue to urge the committee to do whatever it can to ensure that we get a proper in-depth review of mental health services in Scotland, which should include consideration of what data we do and do not record and proper evaluation. Having more scrutiny and debate in the Parliament can only be a good thing. I know that committees, including the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, are stretched, but if we do not find space in this parliamentary session to do that work properly and to push the Government further, more of our constituents will lose their lives, and we will have more Karen McKeowns looking to the Parliament and asking what we did.

I thank the convener and other committee members for all their work on the petition over the past three years.

I welcome Liam Kerr’s motion and hope that the whole Parliament will back it today. All primary school pupils in Wales and in London have free school meals because that has been made a political priority. Does Liam Kerr agree that the SNP needs to drop the spin and the excuses in its amendment and put the needs of Scotland’s children first?

[Made a request to intervene.]

We do not need to travel internationally to find good practice. For example, Inverclyde Council is a Scottish local authority that has rolled out universal free school meals to all primary pupils. We have examples of local producers and young people with ideas. At the round-table discussion that the cabinet secretary and I held, we heard that many councils are ready to go in that direction, but we need leadership, direction and a wee bit of pulling people together. Will the cabinet secretary pick up the phone to some of those who are doing it already?

It would be good to simplify this a bit more. We have talked about the proposed carbon budgets. I am keen to understand from each of our witnesses when and how the Scottish Government should publish its climate change plan or plans. We have touched on that a little.

Initially, however, I would like to pick up on some of the comments that you have made, David. We have heard from some of our witnesses about what is technically possible and on the table, and about what is fair and just—and what the public will accept. I am interested in that potential gap between the technical side and the policy solutions that will help us to get to a just transition. My question is about the when and the how. How do the proposals align with the work that the Government is doing around the just transition? That has not been mentioned today, but that is what people might have been alluding to. I am glad that the citizens assembly was mentioned.

If we can get a simple answer on when and how, that would be really helpful to the committee.

Before I move on to Professor Roy, do you have a view on what the frequency of the publishing of the climate change plan or plans should be? How could the Government achieve the aims that you have set out? What do you think would be the right form of practice?

I am trying to get a sense of when and how you think the climate change plan or plans should be published, because we want to be able to make recommendations to the Government on that. How could the way in which the Government manages that cycle help with budget alignment and with persuading people and bringing people with us?

Are there any additional comments on that?

It was emphasised that to try to manage some of the challenges, we need good co-ordination and effective working between Governments, including local government. We are in the early days of a new UK Government. There is a lot of risk there, but there is an opportunity for people at Government level to behave differently, although they might not. We just do not know yet.

Thinking about the governance arrangements, would you recommend anything else to us in relation to the bill that we are looking at?

A point was made that we need effective communication and co-ordination. I am interested to know how we can maximise the opportunity for that to happen, and whether there is scope in the bill to do that.

I do not know whether Professor Roy wants to add to his point. David Hawkey might also have something to say.