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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 3102 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. That is fine.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 11th meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee.

The first item of business is a decision on taking agenda items 4 and 5 in private. Is the committee agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

“Decarbonising heat in homes”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I will turn to one of the issues that are of particular concern for us, as elected members of the Scottish Parliament. Can you tell us why the Minister for Zero Carbon Buildings, Active Travel and Tenants’ Rights has proposed revised timelines for new regulations on heat in homes that are simply not compatible with the Scottish Government’s existing 2030 targets?

Public Audit Committee

“Decarbonising heat in homes”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

And by members of the Scottish Parliament, I presume.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that very clear opening statement. I will turn straight to the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, to ask the first questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Before I turn to Graham Simpson, I reflect on something that Gavin Redmond mentioned: the unforecast rise in the number of medical appointments and the strain that that brings. In opening, Mr Jones, you mentioned that you had watched—or read, anyway—the evidence that was given to the committee a couple of weeks ago by His Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons. She told us about potential risks through human rights-based challenges, because of the denial of people’s basic human rights, including to things such as access to medical services. Have you as a company considered that? For example, do you consider that you as a corporation could be at risk as a co-nominee in any challenge that is based on human rights?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. We are not going to rehearse a court case here, so I will move on.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Mr Jones, I want to ask you about another piece of correspondence—the letter that was sent by Cat Boyd of the Public and Commercial Services Union to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice on 14 December. I am going to go into a new area that we have not covered, because I am looking for your response to what is said in that letter.

The bit that I want to concentrate on—I am sort of looking at Mr Redmond here—is the communication element. In her letter, Cat Boyd from the PCS, on behalf of her members—that is, people who work in the court service—makes criticism of the

“Lack of communication/accurate communication. If custody hasn’t arrived in the building it is very difficult to find out where they are”

or an estimated time of arrival. She also says in the letter:

“GEOAmey will unilaterally put courts down when they do not have enough staff to cover them. This is usually done without consultation”.

How do you respond to those charges?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of quick questions before I invite Willie Coffey to wind up the session.

In answer to Graham Simpson’s questions, you mentioned that the new hourly rate of pay from 1 May this year would be £13.25. At the point at which the chief inspector described the situation as being “shocking”—that is, presumably prior to October 2023—these heroic front-line staff would have been working through the pandemic. What was the hourly rate of pay back in 2020?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I take it that staff do not have a no-strike clause.