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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 3264 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Director general, we must leave it there. Thank you very much for that final answer.

I thank all our witnesses for the evidence that they have given us. Thank you, Andrew Chapman, Tim McDonnell, Susan Gallacher and director general Caroline Lamb for giving us your time and insight. We might want to follow up on some areas; I think that you, in turn, undertook to give us more information, which we would very much value, as always.

With that, we move into private session.

12:33 Meeting continued in private until 12:49.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Item 2 is further consideration of the Audit Scotland report “General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses for the first session. We are joined by Dr Iain Morrison, chair of the Scottish general practice committee of the British Medical Association Scotland. Alongside him is Dr Chris Provan, chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners Scotland. We are joined remotely by the vice-chair of RCGP Scotland, Dr Chris Williams. Dr Williams, if you want to come in at any point to answer the committee’s questions, indicate that in the chat box and we will endeavour to bring you in.

We have quite a number of questions to put but, before we get to them, I invite the representatives in the room to give us short opening statements. I will begin with Dr Morrison.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Other committee members might return to some of those points. I will move on to another aspect of the report, which I asked the Auditor General about when he was before us a few weeks ago. In the end, we are talking about a whole system, and the difficulties that are faced in secondary care in the national health service are pretty well documented. There are extensive waiting times and a large number of people on waiting lists. Will you describe for us—maybe Dr Provan can answer, too—the impact on general practitioners of that persistent and almost intractable increase in waiting times for people who are awaiting treatment in hospitals? You choose between yourselves who wants to answer first.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Richard Leonard

In the Parliament, the debates on health typically focus on inputs versus outcomes, with a lot of emphasis on how many people are being employed to carry out work or how many more appointments there will be, and whether the outcomes are changing as a result of that. It seems to me that this issue is about the inputs, because unless you get the inputs right, you will not get the outcomes that you want.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I will ask Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. That is a useful point to conclude proceedings at. There are a number of areas where it might be useful to get a bit more information, if the witnesses are able to supply it.

Thank you very much for your evidence, Auditor General. I also thank Bernie Milligan and Alison Cumming for their input, which has been greatly appreciated.

11:16 Meeting continued in private until 12:20.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Do you take a view on whether it would be better for those two roles to be decoupled?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Is it advertised widely or is it just advertised to that group in quite a targeted way?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Richard Leonard

You are the finale today.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Richard Leonard

I have.