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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 3682 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Richard Leonard

I now invite Keith Brown to put some questions to the witnesses.

Public Audit Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 24th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. We have received apologies from Joe FitzPatrick. I welcome Keith Brown, who joins us as Joe FitzPatrick’s substitute. Keith, do you wish to declare any relevant interests?

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

You said—and I think that it is recorded in the Auditor General’s report—that the bank is well governed. However, when the Auditor General gave evidence to the committee on 28 May, he also said that overgovernance is

“a real risk to be managed.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 28 May 2025; c19.]

I have listened to the description of the various bits of apparatus, some of which are described in exhibit 3 of the Auditor General’s report. There is a business investment group; a Scottish Government ministerial advisory group; the board of the National Investment Bank itself; and there is this figure who acts as a provider of independent oversight and who, as you have described it, liaises. There is a danger, is there not, that, at a strategic level, and even possibly at an operational level, there are lots of cooks who might spoil the broth?

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

But you are vigilant, no doubt.

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

I do not want to labour this point but, just for clarity, my understanding, from reading the Auditor General’s report and then from the exchanges that we had with the chair of the bank back in June, was that the Treasury was undertaking a discrete review to look at the rules, and possibly the legislative framework, around these public financial institutions, which are presumably the PuFins that you are talking about—the National Wealth Fund and so on.

Has such a discrete review started? Has it been completed? Have recommendations been made and are the chancellor or Treasury officials now musing over those, or have they decided, or what? When Mr Beattie asked Mr Rollison about the timetable, it was all a bit woolly. However, the recommendation in the report is that, within three months of those recommendations, action should be taken.

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

That is less than clear, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Are you going to meet the three-month timetable set out in the Auditor General’s recommendation?

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

I am still none the wiser as to whether the Scottish Government’s position is that it wants the Scottish National Investment Bank to be a perpetual investment fund or not.

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Why does it take so long? The announcement was made in April that Mr Denholm was standing down. I think that he was very generous in saying that he would hang around to make sure that there was a transition and that he was in no rush to get out of the door and so on, but you might be trying his patience if you are saying that it will be another couple of months before somebody is going to be in post.

Public Audit Committee

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Richard Leonard

Yes, there is patient capital and there are patient men. However, on a serious note, from the point of view of the good operation of the bank and the maintenance of the leadership of the bank, surely there should be a little bit more urgency and an understanding that, presumably, whoever is appointed will need to give notice to their current employer. You could be looking at next year before someone is in post.