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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Yesterday, I was reflecting on the fact that Graham Simpson and I are both Central Scotland MSPs, and the two health boards in our area have had quite significant leadership changes in quite a short space of time. Next week, the new chief executive officer of NHS Lanarkshire starts; this is no comment on that individual at all, but they will be the third CEO in two and a half years. If you include the interim CEO, NHS Forth Valley is on to its third CEO in less than two years.

There seems to be quite a lot of turbulence in those leadership positions. Are the underlying reasons for that part of what you are looking at? Are they being given the support that they need? Is one potential facet the revolving door, which means that people just move between health boards? Is that creating an instability in the leadership of territorial NHS boards?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

What is your anticipated timetable for that? Will your analysis of the major capital projects prioritisation be something that you will do some work on and put in the public domain before the end of this year, for example?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Stuart McMillan in a second, but first I want to ask you about an expression that you used earlier. You have just described the consequences for democratic scrutiny and for some of the decisions that the Government needs to make of the delays to the medium-term financial strategy. You also said in your opening statement that the Government has not yet delivered “at pace” on things such as public sector reform. That is a very mild criticism, is it not? There is an inference that the Government could be pressing ahead at a quicker rate than it actually is.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

That was useful. I come back to Graham Simpson, who has a couple of other issues that he wants to raise with you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you for your co-operation with that final round of questions and all the other questions that we have put to you this morning. It has been extremely useful for us.

I thank Mark MacPherson, Alison Cumming and the Auditor General for being available this morning to give us insight into their work programme. It is a consultation process and we will need to consider how best to canvass the views of other parts of the Parliament and to feed back their views on the indicative work programme.

The committee will now move into private session.

11:04 Meeting continued in private until 12:13.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. This is the final part of my final question. This morning’s discussion has been about the work that Audit Scotland is able to carry out before we hit the buffer of March next year, when the Parliament is dissolved and we go into election mode. Is it your working expectation that the assurance that you will be able to provide on the pre-nationalisation phase of Ferguson Marine will be available before we hit that buffer?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Audit Scotland has described it as an assurance exercise on the work that has been commissioned to be done by an external firm of accountants.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Moving on to another area that you will be reporting on—the adult disability payment, which is administered by Social Security Scotland—I note that, in your presentation, you very tactfully said that,

“Social security spending is increasingly outstripping Barnett consequentials in Scotland.”

My reading of the UK Government’s recently published green paper suggests that that situation is going to get a whole lot worse. If I have read correctly what is being proposed, there are the cuts to universal credit and the eligibility criteria for that, but what will have a more direct bearing on the adult disability payment are the proposed changes to the personal independence payment. As I read it, an aim in the green paper is to cut eligibility. Assessments are based on scores; I think that the score thresholds to qualify for PIP will rise, and the Office for Budget Responsibility has estimated that 800,000 people will face a minimum cut of £4,200 per annum.

The effect of that on the consequentials for the Social Security Scotland budget is quite profound, is it not? Do I read it correctly that the pressures that you have identified in relation to where we are now are likely to be exacerbated significantly in the future, never mind the individual consequences for the outcomes for people in receipt of those payments?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

We look forward to your report.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 13th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. We have received apologies from the deputy convener, Jamie Greene.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3, 4, 5 and 6 in private. Are we agreed to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.