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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 May 2025
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Displaying 3139 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

I am reflecting on the report that you referred to, Auditor General, which you brought out earlier this year, where you reminded us that a climate emergency was declared in 2019. Four years down the line, we are in an emergency situation. What urgent action has been taken? Is anything being included in construction specifications around new public infrastructure that recognises the seriousness of the emergency that we are facing?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

We will be keen to hear the results of that investigatory work that you are doing.

I will ask one other question before I bring Sharon Dowey in. Again, it is about something that we have spoken about in other contexts at the committee over the last couple of years, and certainly over the last year or so, and that is inflation, especially in the construction industry. In paragraph 43 of the report, you refer to a concern that councils have expressed that construction inflation is estimated to be around 30 per cent. I suppose the fairly obvious question is: what is being done in terms of the allocation of funds to address that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

For reasons of transparency, if it was possible to disentangle any of that in order to understand what the different drivers of inflationary costs were and what was happening to the overall capital settlement, that would be useful. Presumably, it would be useful for local authorities in order to help them to prosecute their arguments for, perhaps, additional funding.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

That is really helpful. Other committee members have questions about financing arrangements and staffing levels, so we will come to those. I now turn now to Craig Hoy.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We can see that there are staged approaches to the roll-out—by age, for example. It will be interesting to see where that gets to.

We have another question that we want to ask you by way of introduction. You indicate in the report that, roughly speaking, expenditure in the year that you looked at was £1 billion of public money. What is the projected funding figure for future years?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Reflecting on some of your earlier reports, there were concerns about the extent to which the expansion would be fulfilled, because of delays in the provision of new buildings and refurbishment of buildings, and concerns about whether the increased staffing that would be required to deliver the expansion would be met. Therefore, when I read this report, I was quite pleasantly surprised to find that that appears to have happened. We talk about the £1 billion of funding, but is that revenue funding? Does it include the capital investment that has been required to increase capacity in the public sector, for example? Can you break down those different components for us?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Who produced the report on the pilots? Was it produced by the local authorities or by somebody on behalf of the Scottish Government?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That would be helpful.

We speak about the expansion to 1,140 hours, but they are not mandatory. Do you have any data on, or have you done any work to understand, why parents and carers may exercise the right not to avail themselves of the 1,140 hours?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.

I have one final question before I bring in Willie Coffey. In paragraph 25 of the report, you refer to satisfaction surveys of parents in consideration of the flexibility of the arrangements and so on. If I have read it correctly, there was a much higher satisfaction rate among parents or carers when the children were living in households in which parents were not at work, for example. There also seemed to be a higher satisfaction rate in the more deprived areas. Do you have any rationalisation of that? Could you enlighten us as to why you think those are the results?

Public Audit Committee

“Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 8 June 2023

Richard Leonard

In the report, you mention other weaknesses over and above the failure to carry out equality impact assessments. You set those out in paragraph 83. Again, they stand out as areas of significant concern. You say that the Scottish Government and the criminal justice board

“did not agree clear plans, outcomes and success measures”

for the recover, renew, transform programme; that

“the RRT advisory group was not given the opportunity to be sufficiently engaged”

in that programme; and that the advisory group did not seem to get full access to decision making.

You also say that

“wider public reporting of the programme was limited”;

that there was inconsistency; that minutes of the criminal justice board meetings were not produced; and that the results of a lessons-learned exercise appear not to have been adopted.

We would expect such rudimentary elements of operation to be met but, according to your report and findings, that was simply not the case. Will you elaborate a bit more on why that was?