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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Do you have a shared perspective on the scale of the challenge?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.

I invite the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, to put some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you. In order to move things along, I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. Graham Simpson mentioned case study 2 in the report. Can I ask you about case study 4, which is not Trieste but Tayside? There have been some pretty catastrophic failures in the approach of the mental health service in NHS Tayside. The experience of people at Carseview in particular produced some very harrowing personal tragedies for families. What information can you give us about current adult mental health services in NHS Tayside?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I will finish with a fairly straightforward, I think, question. The COSLA and Scottish Government mental health strategy was published after the Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland reports came out, and the committee is very interested to know when you will publish a progress report on where you are with the commitments in the delivery plan and, in particular, when you will report back on the workforce action plan. Again, for the avoidance of doubt, we have been told by a number of witnesses that there is—to quote their expression—a “workforce crisis”. When is there likely to be a progress report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

The main item for the committee is agenda item 2, which is further consideration of the joint Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland report on adult mental health.

We have already held a series of round-table evidence sessions, as well as having a session with the Auditor General and his team. This morning, we are pleased to welcome witnesses from the Scottish Government to give us their response to the evidence that we have already taken and to answer some of the questions that we have.

I am pleased that we are joined by the accountable officer, Caroline Lamb, who is the chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director general of health and social care in the Scottish Government. Alongside the accountable officer, we have Gavin Gray, who is the deputy director of improving mental health services, and Dr Alastair Cook, who is the principal medical officer in the mental health division of the Scottish Government.

Before we get to our questions, I invite Caroline Lamb to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Again, I go back to the point that I made earlier, which is that the Scottish Government made increasing mental health funding by 25 per cent to ensure that 10 per cent of all spending on the NHS front line is on mental health services a priority. I would therefore expect the Scottish Government to take some responsibility to ensure that those outcomes are being met.

09:15  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I think that the answer to my question is no. Although that will be mopped up as part of the national care service review, you do not necessarily expect any fundamental reform of the architecture of adult mental health services.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I go back to a point that I alighted on very briefly, which is based on the evidence that we took from the Royal College of Psychiatrists. You seem to paint a picture of things going pretty well, but we were told that the system is hugely overreliant on locums. Do you have a strategy for tackling that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

A particular occupational group that we have not yet spoken about explicitly is community link workers. When Christiana Melam from the National Association of Link Workers gave evidence to the committee on 16 November, she basically said that link workers feel quite undervalued in the system, and cited their not even being listed as a group to be consulted in relation to statutory guidance for the Health and Care (Staffing) (Scotland) Act 2019. Caroline, what is your view on the role of community link workers?