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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Yes. Right.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Forgive me, but my reading of what you are saying is that reform equals contraction and rightsizing equals downsizing.

Before I bring in Graham Simpson, I have just one question that I hope is straightforward and which will elicit a quick answer. Currently, there are no public sector pay guidelines. They were not part and parcel of the fabric of the budget presented to Parliament. Can we expect to see public sector pay guidelines being issued?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That would be helpful.

I will take us back to the substantive report that we are discussing, which is the Auditor General’s section 22 report. I want to get your position on the record, permanent secretary. Paragraphs 95 and 96 are the conclusion of the report. Paragraph 96 carries a series of five clear recommendations from the Auditor General about a change of approach and development of approach, and so on, with regard to accessibility and transparency; governance and assurance arrangements; the public sector estate; a road map of what the design and delivery of public services, which we have already spoken about this morning, looks like and how you will advance that; and a timetable for completion, as a matter of urgency, of the whole-of-Government accounts, which we will get to shortly.

Do you accept the conclusions and recommendations in that paragraph of the report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I will move on to another quick question about the strategic commercial assets division. Do you consider the Petroineos oil refinery at Grangemouth to be a strategic commercial asset?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I am going to move us on to the final couple of areas that we want to speak to you about. One is around the corporate transformation programme. Paragraphs 84 and 85 in the audit report talk about that and remind us of the escalation in costs and the slippage in timetable of the new systems for human resources and finance. The original cost was estimated to be £22 million. It has now almost doubled; it has gone up to £40 million. The date of implementation was meant to be the middle of last year for the HR system and the end of last year for the finance system. We are now told that it will not be until April of this year. Can you provide us with an update on where that is? Are you going to meet those revised timetables?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Is an external information technology contractor involved?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

With these kind of contracts, is there never any consideration given to the agreement of a fixed-price contract, rather than some kind of cost-plus, evolving and ever-increasing price tag?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Sorry for my ignorance—I have not started reading “Computer Weekly” just yet, although it has been in the news quite a lot recently. Is Oracle the name of the software or the name of the company that provides it? Who is the IT provider? What is the name of the commercial outfit that is providing the system?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

And its head count.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you very much.