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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 May 2025
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Displaying 3123 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

We have a particular question on that. Before I bring in the deputy convener to go down that line of questioning, I note that you have mentioned the fact that your CV includes deputy convenership of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee and membership of the Economy and Fair Work Committee. However, it also includes Cabinet-level ministerial responsibility between 2009 and 2020, which covers a large part of the time span that we have looked at in our evidence collection. As someone who was a member of the Cabinet during that time, can you tell us which issues around Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow and which issues around Ferguson Marine as it is now constituted came to the Cabinet?

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. That is fine.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. We of course note the point that your appointment came after the report had been published and the response from the Government received, but it is fair to say that our sense was that, of the 13 overall conclusions that we produced, six were responded to, one was partly responded to and six were not responded to at all. We were keen to have this session to explore a bit more those areas where we felt as though the response had been insufficient, given the weightiness of the conclusions that we had reached.

I will begin my questioning by highlighting a fairly fundamental point, which is the conclusion that we reached that island communities, taxpayers and the workforce have been badly let down. First of all, do you want to take the opportunity this morning to comment on that? Secondly, where do you consider that responsibility lies for the procurement of these two vessels having a six-year delay and being three times—and counting—over budget?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Sarah Jane Hannah, I want to go back to something that you said about timing. One of the comments that was made to the committee when the Auditor General gave evidence on 29 June was that

“Timeliness is relevant to scrutiny”.—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 29 June 2023; c 9.]

There was, I think, some concern about the late approval of your accounts. Are you going to be on course and on schedule for this year’s accounts?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Colin, I am really sorry to interrupt you but we are up against time and I know that Willie Coffey has some questions that he wants to ask. The truth of the matter is that we have been very busy this morning and maybe, rather than ask the panel lots of questions, we can write to you with some of the questions that we do not get to and you can respond. The committee can consider how best that could be prosecuted, if you will pardon the expression.

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

I underscore the committee’s recommendation that that investigation should be carried out “thoroughly” but also “urgently”. As Graham Simpson said, it is a year since the programme was broadcast.

I will ask another question, which was identified in our report but not really responded to by your predecessor. Will you respond now to the concerns that the committee expressed about the decision to publicly announce the preferred bidder on 31 August 2015, when

“there were still significant negotiations to be concluded”?

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Is it the Government’s position that you would just do the same all over again?

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

We will come on to the business investment framework shortly. I will ask you about the issue of transparency. On 31 May, a meeting took place between the former First Minister and Jim McColl at which no permanent civil servant was present. Does the Scottish Government have a view on that?

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Does the Scottish Government have a view on a meeting between a minister and a private contractor at which no permanent civil servants are present?

Public Audit Committee

“New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 21 September 2023

Richard Leonard

But not a permanent civil servant.