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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3919 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Tackling Digital Exclusion

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Richard Leonard

We are short of time, so we will move on to Colin Beattie to ask the next questions.

Public Audit Committee

Tackling Digital Exclusion

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Richard Leonard

That is okay. I will bring Graham Simpson in to ask a quick question in a minute, but it is striking that, in the introduction to the report, in paragraph 6, you say:

“Digital exclusion is strongly associated with poverty and people with certain protected characteristics.”

You go on to say, in paragraph 13, that digital exclusion is caused by affordability, by whether people have digital skills, by whether they “fear or mistrust” digital systems and by poor connectivity or being unable to afford to keep up with technological change.

09:15  

In paragraph 16, you reiterate that the major causes of digital exclusion are poverty—including being on benefits—and age, because older people are presumably less likely to be able to access digital technology. You say that people with disabilities and those who are socially isolated must overcome barriers to access. That gives a clear sense of those people among our citizens who are predominantly excluded from public services that are digitally provided.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Can I just probe that a little bit more? My reading is that the good compliance record was much higher the year before—the percentage was in the 80s. Is that evidence of things going in the right direction, or is it evidence of things going in the wrong direction?

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

The report says that there are examples of insufficient “challenge of management”. That has not affected the outcome of the assurance around the audit; it is just a methodology thing. Is that what is being said there?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay, and what about the other accommodation costs?

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

It feels a little bit like you might be manipulating the figures, Mr Smith.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You have a separate measure of audit quality, which involves your appointment of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales to carry out performance reviews on a sample of—in this case—eight audits. If I interpret the findings correctly, the ICAEW said that only four of the eight audits of which it carried out a performance review met the standard that was expected. Is that your reading of the findings? If so, what conclusions do you draw from that?

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You have mentioned on the record your aspirations around where you want to be and by when. As Professor Alexander said, to some extent, our job is to challenge and scrutinise, and that is what we are trying to do this morning.

I will go to another area, which is the operating cost variances that we see in the report and accounts. Why, even though a substantial increase in budget for 2023-24 was sought in that budget—with regard to rent and rates, for example—do we see an underspend? Why, when a substantial increase in budget was sought this year in relation to travel and subsistence, do we see a significant underspend? Why, when a substantial increase was sought in relation to legal and professional fees, do we see a substantial underspend? Can you explain that?

11:00  

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

The variances do not just cover underspends but overspends as well. Things such as IT costs are significantly more than what was budgeted for. Again, Mr Dennis, I suspect that we will get into the murky world of accommodation and international accounting standards, but other accommodation costs—I am not entirely sure what that line covers—were 40 per cent above budget as well. From the point of view of challenge and scrutiny in this public forum, could you explain why there were substantial overspends in those areas?