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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
One other very brief question.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
Okay, thank you. The other recommendation in this report for which there is not that clear phrase,
“The Scottish Government accepts this recommendation”,
is in relation to a human rights-based approach to tackling alcohol and drug dependency and relying on the lived and living experience of people who are using services or maybe, in some cases, are not able to access them. Do you accept the recommendation that there needs to be more focus on a rights-based approach?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much for that opening statement, which covers a lot of the ground that we will get into a bit more detail about in the next hour and a half. I will begin by asking the question that I often pose on these occasions, which is whether you accept all of the recommendations that are contained in the Auditor General and Accounts Commission report.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
Do you accept that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to this, the 33rd and final meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2024. Agenda item 1 is for members of the committee to decide whether or not to take agenda items 3 and 4 today in private. Is the committee content to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
On that last point, I am bound to observe that the issue is not just about poverty; it is about inequality. As a Parliament, we should perhaps spend a bit of time looking at that issue in a bit more depth.
I draw this morning’s evidence session to a close. I thank each witness for the answers that they have given to our wide-ranging questions. On behalf of the committee, I thank Scott Heald from Public Health Scotland for his evidence; Maggie Page from the drugs strategy unit for answering the questions that we put to her; and Caroline Lamb, the chief executive of NHS Scotland, director general of health and social care and accountable officer, for appearing before us and helping to answer the questions that we posed.
10:53 Meeting continued in private until 11:12.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
Can I explore that a bit more? You referred to the letter that you sent us, which I think was dated 10 December, in which you very clearly, and quite often, use the phrase:
“The Scottish Government accepts this recommendation”—
indeed, you use it in regard to nearly all the recommendations. However, there are two for which you do not. The first is recommendation 1, which is to
“work with key stakeholders to agree actions”
to address the lack of
“focus and funding for tackling alcohol-related harm”.
Do you accept that there has been a loss of focus on alcohol-related harm?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
Members of the committee will pick that up. However, obviously, you are not a stakeholder but the accountable officer for the Scottish Government.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
For example.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 19 December 2024
Richard Leonard
Before I invite other members of the committee to come in, I will ask about drug poisoning, which you mentioned and which is the index that allows you to compare across the UK. However, that tells us that the incidence of deaths is twice as high in Scotland as it is in other parts of the UK. You say that it is complicated, but surely it is your job to understand what the factors are and why Scotland is such an outlier. As we said in the evidence session with the Auditor General, there is huge multiple deprivation in parts of the north of England and south Wales, and in Northern Ireland, yet the figures in Scotland are so shocking.