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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
Sickness absence among NHS staff is at a 10-year high, and the First Minister announced on Monday that he wants there to be 150,000 extra appointments and procedures. How are you going to do that unless you tackle that level of staff absence?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
I now turn to Colin Beattie, who has some questions to put to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. I will move on and invite Graham Simpson to put questions to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
Waiting like a coiled spring is the very patient deputy convener, Jamie Greene, who has some final questions to put to the witnesses. Thank you for your forbearance, Jamie.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much for putting that on the record.
I turn to the review of actions since the previous report—“NHS in Scotland 2023”—was issued. Appendix 2 of the most recent report charts the progress that is being made since then. In broad terms, the Auditor General finds that some of the recommendations that were made last year are “In progress”. That includes the medium-term financial strategy, which the committee has been concerned about because of its delayed announcement; I think that we are now expecting to see it in spring this year. The Auditor General also notes that an update to the national workforce strategy is “In progress”, although he says that “no timeline is confirmed.” He then talks about “Limited progress” on a long-term vision, and says:
“The restated vision from the Scottish Government does not clearly set out national priorities or provide a framework for reform.”
I wonder whether you could comment on those areas.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the fourth meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. Agenda item 1 is to decide whether to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do members agree to do so?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
Yes—the Public Audit Committee is indeed very interested in tackling digital exclusion.
I am conscious of the time, so I will bring in Stuart McMillan.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
We have covered an awful lot of ground this morning. If the budget is passed in a few weeks, the NHS budget will rise to £21 billion, for which you, Caroline Lamb, will be the accountable officer. Because it constitutes 40 per cent of the entire Scottish budget, it is important that we, as the Public Audit Committee, scrutinise what you are doing and examine areas where things are not going quite as well as we would like.
There is also a great deal of public interest in health and social care, and I think the national health service remains probably the best-loved public institution that we have.
I thank Caroline Lamb, Alan Gray and John Burns very much for their time and co-operation this morning, in answering our questions.
11:43 Meeting continued in private until 12:15.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
In the speech that the First Minister made on Monday, he said:
“we”
need to
“put in place clear milestones and targets”,
which is music to the ears of the Public Audit Committee and, I am sure, the Auditor General.
The problem is, however, that we have heard that so many times before. Let us look at the areas where the Auditor General identifies that there has been no progress. The annual recovery plan update, and the whole recovery plan, was first instituted in August 2021, and there is a real lack of transparency around that. The Auditor General also notes that the annual updates that we expect on service reform are not there either.
Why, only now—that is, two days ago—is it once again necessary to say that we need a new clear direction and we are going to set out milestones, when the evidence before us appears to show that, even when ambitions are set, progress reports are not made, milestones are not clear and there is no real sense that progress is being made? Why is it going to be any different this time?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 January 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. I begin by asking you that perennial question: do you accept the findings and recommendations of the Auditor General’s report?