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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 May 2025
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Displaying 3061 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

The independent reviews did engage with businesses. If you want information on what that engagement looked like, I am sure that it can be provided.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

Obviously, I agree with my officials. Every bill that comes before this Parliament has to be ECHR compliant, and the Presiding Officer has to decide whether that is the case, too. This bill is compliant.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

Hugh Dignon has something to add.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

It is not regulation; it is a code of practice, which will be worked on by NatureScot and in collaboration with the stakeholders who will be applying for the licences.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

There are a couple of things there. First, people will be applying for licences, which will be granted when they provide certain information. That process will be quite straightforward. It is not the case that we can say, “If you do not follow the code of practice, you will not get a licence.” People will have a licence and, if complaints are made that they are not following the code of practice, the idea is that NatureScot will liaise with the landowner or land manager in order to ascertain what parts of the code of practice they are not complying with and to establish what it can do by way of advice or assistance to get them to comply with the code. That seems to be the philosophy from NatureScot: it wants to liaise and work with land managers so that it can get them up to code, so to speak, and so that what you are suggesting does not come to pass.

Your second point was about the idea of a disproportionate, almost knee-jerk, reaction from NatureScot, suspending licences based on very little information. I just cannot see that coming to pass. NatureScot would lose credibility very quickly. It is an organisation—it used to be Scottish Natural Heritage—that people know well and it has been working and operating in Scotland for many years. On the whole, it has very good relationships with land managers and the shooting estates.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

I get that we are arguing back and forth, but NatureScot has to have the flexibility to be able to act in order to prevent any further damage from happening. The line is in the bill to allow it to do that. It can take a while for a police investigation to take place, but if something so egregious and severe has happened that NatureScot feels that it should take that action, it needs to be able to do that. Whether it will ever do that is another matter, but it needs to have the flexibility to be able to. That is why that line is in the bill.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

I do not really get what you are asking, so I will ask Hugh Dignon to come in. From my understanding of what you have said, you do not have the right understanding.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

It would not be the SSPCA that would establish an investigation into wildlife crime. It would be the police that would conduct such an investigation.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

No, that would be the police—and, indeed, NatureScot, as the issuer of the licence. I see what you are getting at, but the SSPCA cannot make claims that will revoke or suspend any licences. NatureScot is the licence supplier; it has the licensing scheme and will work closely with the police in that respect.

As I have said, I see what you are getting at, but I do not think that it is a concern. In effect, what the SSPCA will be able to do, if it has already been called to an area and sees evidence of a wildlife crime, is that as part of that call—which could be about something completely different—it can gather that evidence and supply it to the police.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

The SSPCA was saying, “Give us these powers or don’t.” However, the SSPCA and others have been pointing out the issue of evidence being able to be destroyed or removed.