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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 May 2025
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Displaying 3061 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

You will appreciate that I realised only a week past Tuesday that I was taking forward the bill. I was not involved in its drafting, so I cannot speak to that. The question is really for my predecessor, who is not accountable to the committee any more.

Bills change. If we make proposals, we have to ensure that the committee has the time to scrutinise them. That is why I made the announcement about the SSPCA yesterday, ahead of the committee deliberating on its report.

I am looking to my officials for when we think that we will have anything on the snaring proposals. I would want to get that to the committee sooner rather than later so that, when the committee puts together its stage 1 report, it has the full information.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

You are right. You have pointed to the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission’s recommendations. We take that position seriously, and we look to the commission for advice. However, individuals, stakeholders and organisations have asked us to look at other views, which we are doing. We will come to a conclusion on that soon. It might be the same conclusion that you just cited.

As members will understand, I want to be sighted on all the decisions about that, as I now have responsibility for the bill. Before a decision is made, I want to see what has been looked at and what conclusions have been reached, and I want to do that quite quickly—as I have said, in the next couple of weeks. After this evidence session, I will look to see when we can give the committee a definitive date. If I can get a definitive date to the committee even more quickly than when it is going to be released, I will do that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

My officials and I need to decide what our policy objective is going to be and what our proposal and our amendments will be at stage 2. If that is to ban the sale of snares—in the same way as we propose to ban the sale of glue traps—there will immediately be a letter to notify the UK Government of our intention.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

Thank you for that notice; it is not often that Christine Grahame gives ministers notice of her amendments.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

The other thing that I would say, Ms Hamilton, is that the Werritty review was very clear in its recommendations to Government. We took on board a few of them, and it recommended that a licensing measure could make a difference in that area.

I know that, when they were in front of you, you asked my officials for more evidence as to the connection, which they sent on to the committee. That evidence was sent—that is a matter of record.

We cannot just stand by and accept the status quo; we need to go to the licensing that Professor Werritty and his team said would be an option if some of the other measures were not getting us to a solution on the issue. That is what we are proposing.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

I am saying that the evidence is there to suggest that many of those crimes have taken place on grouse moors—that is a fact.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

You will have to wait and see.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

—evidence is taken and, indeed, ministers change. I have been looking at this for one week. I have watched all the committee’s evidence sessions, I will speak to SL&E tomorrow on its views, I am meeting with stakeholders and I will be speaking to a lot of the people who I would have spoken to already, had I been here at the start of the drafting of the bill. Therefore, forgive me, but between stage 1 and stage 2 is when I will make many of those decisions.

09:45  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

I will bring in Hugh Dignon, but I would not say that I am in a difficult position. I am going to take the bill forward. There are things that I need to be satisfied about, and there was a rationale for the draft, so if Hugh wants to come in on that, that is fine.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2023

Gillian Martin

The Government can decide what is proportionate and reasonable to put in a bill on the basis of advice and recommendations. A committee then deliberates whether the bill is proportionate and reasonable, and it can make recommendations for amendments. I believe that the bill that is in front of the committee is very much in line with the Werritty report, and I stand by it. Will the bill change before it is passed at its final stage? Of course it will. I am open to speaking to stakeholders about how the bill can be improved, and to hearing from members if they have proposals for improvements. I have said that quite clearly.