Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 May 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 3061 contributions

|

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I was not going to say that. [Laughter.]

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I do not have any concern about the figures in the financial memorandum associated with the campaign. I think that they are realistic and in line with those for similar campaigns.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I think that the carrot, as you put it, is about families and people who are buying dogs having good advice and knowing, when they buy a puppy from somewhere, that they have followed the best practice. It is about people having comfort that they have not participated in the perpetration of any kind of nefarious trade and that they have not bought, potentially, an ill puppy, because it is devastating for people when puppies become ill. That is the carrot.

I do not want to put words into Ms Grahame’s mouth, but I suppose that, from her point of view, the carrot is also that people who conform to the code when they sell puppies will have, almost, a kind of quality assurance associated with what they are doing.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

We would certainly be open to an amendment that would double that time. As I said in response to Ms Forbes, we would support amendments that clarified that the provisions of sections 2 to 4 on the code of practice are advisory in nature rather than directive. I think that that is where we have an issue.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I refer back to everything that I have said about the people who are perpetrating these less-than-optimum practices for puppy breeding. They are very clever people. Although you have great intentions with regard to what the bill might achieve, I worry about some aspects of it. I do not necessarily think that a code of practice is the only tool in the box that we need to have in order to deal with the illegal puppy trade.

I have mentioned some of the work that has been done by the Scottish Government and other agencies as part of the group that has been set up. That involves working with HM Revenue and Customs, Border Force and other Administrations to tackle the organisations that are involved in the practices in question. I do not think that a code of practice will ever solve that problem.

However, I agree that we need to have a new set of guidance that enhances and improves people’s awareness of some of the practices that are happening now and some of the issues that they should take into account when they are looking to buy or adopt a dog or a puppy. A new set of guidance will be helpful in that regard.

Will it solve the terrible situation that we see with puppies coming in from, in particular, Eastern Europe or Ireland that are, in effect, farmed in massive sheds that are like conveyor-belt factories? To do so will require working between Administrations, working with border forces and, as I have said, working with HMRC to identify the individuals who are making money from puppies and who are involved in organised crime. That task is a lot bigger than what you are proposing in your bill.

09:45  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

Yes—I think that the requirement for a certificate is helpful and that it will focus minds. It is almost a psychological thing. If someone has to sign something in order to get a certificate, to show that they have had to think through some of the aspects of that, that would prompt reflection. I agree with the requirement, as people should very much be doing that already. They are making a commitment of up to about 15 years—they will have a living being in their house, which will require expense and attention and make a massive difference to their everyday life. The requirement for a certificate acts almost as a checklist, and I agree with that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

Potentially, Ms Grahame, but it is your bill and you have to answer the questions on what information you would like to see in some kind of register. I go back to the question, which I think was asked by Dr Allan, about what information the public register could usefully include that would help buyers to know anything about the puppies, the home or the breeder. What would the registration of those individuals mean in terms of animal welfare? What comfort could buyers take from the existence of the register?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

Of course. I accept that any additional information could help any organisation that is involved in enforcement to join the dots.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

I accept that, but I come back to our issues with part 2, which are to do with what it will actually achieve with regard to animal welfare.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 25 October 2023

Gillian Martin

It would be a code of practice that was targeted and focused on buying decisions and the provision of advice to people who were considering getting a puppy or a dog.