Chamber and committees

I will have to get my officials to give me that information. I am happy to write to you. I do not have information on any cost in particular. Zero Waste Scotland is keen for the transition to happen. I am looking at my officials. [Interruption.] I will write to you.

Yes.

Amendment 174 agreed to.

Before I do so, Mr Lumsden, I will continue with my point.

First, a written warning would be issued. Then, only if the failure to comply continues or there is a new but similar failure to comply, a notice of intent to require payment of a civil penalty is issued, with a period of time for representations to be made as to why the civil penalty charge should not be required. After consideration of any representations, a final notice to pay a civil penalty may be served. Again, it is about tackling persistent and deliberate contamination of waste.

A penalty would apply not to a situation where somebody has put something in the wrong bin by mistake but to a situation where there has been evidenced, deliberate contamination.

In any situation where somebody is given a penalty, there has to be evidence behind that. A penalty would be a result of evidence of an individual being identified as deliberately contaminating or failing to comply with the legislation. Mr Lumsden describes a situation where there is a big blanket penalty on the whole block, but that could not be evidenced. Therefore, after consideration of any—

I will continue my point and then I will come to Mr Simpson.

Local authorities, Mr Lumsden, would use those new powers only as a last resort, after other options to engage with and support householders have been attempted. Should the written warning be heeded, there will be no penalty to pay.

Guidance on the approach to enforcement, including the approach to communal bins, will be created in consultation with local authorities. Some local authorities are probably doing well with their levels of contaminated waste, so it is important to share good practice in how they manage that. That is the right way to go about it, rather than a top-down approach from me. It is about enabling co-production in the spirit of the Verity house agreement.

My argument, which you have articulated well, Mr Ruskell, is that we do not want to do anything in primary legislation that is inflexible, does not take into account innovation and would cause a problem if there was a change in the trends in the types of recycling that are required. I absolutely take on board that point. You just made my argument even stronger. We all agree that local authorities and those involved in the co-design process need flexibility, but they also need to bring their experience to bear in that process.

Amendment 65, from Maurice Golden, proposes that the Scottish Government provides resources for an audit of household waste receptacles. I am not sure what benefits would be derived from such an endeavour or, indeed, what the costs to the public purse would be. As part of the co-design process with COSLA and local authorities, research requirements and any gaps in our knowledge will be identified. That could include an audit of the number and types of waste receptacles, but I will leave that to them to identify those gaps. Legislating for such a project before the design process has even begun is counterproductive and potentially a waste of resources.

In the spirit of getting us over the finish line, I will not go over the reasons why I support amendment 55, but I am supporting it. I am also supporting Jackie Dunbar’s amendment 160.

However, on amendment 56, in response to Mr Golden, I cannot support an attempt to restrict consultation with local authorities. The guidance on the approach to enforcement will be created in consultation with local authorities and ensure that enforcement officers have comprehensive and practical guidance on the application of those provisions, including the steps that must be taken in relation to any enforcement action, as I have already mentioned. Therefore, I will not be able to support that amendment as it stands.

I agree that we need to go faster and harder in improving our recycling rates, but does Mr Golden agree that it is a matter of fact that our recycling rates at the moment are the best that they have been since records began? The 62.3 per cent recycling rate is not as good as we want it to be, but it is certainly the highest that it has been.

Amendment 66 would require ministers to issue guidance to waste collection authorities on how to respond to assaults, as we have heard. I understand the motivation for the amendment, but assault is already a serious offence and we would expect that it would be reported to the police. Statutory guidance that was issued by the Scottish Government in that area could contradict or otherwise interfere with the duties of Lord Advocate as head of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. That is why I cannot support amendment 66.

I want to pick up some of the points that have been made. The current voluntary code of practice, which includes sections on workforce development and operational delivery, sets out measures to involve staff members in the planning and preparation for service delivery and ensures that staff are properly equipped for the necessary tasks. That includes training. I expect local authorities to continue to uphold those standards, given the importance of the issue.

I also point out how seriously we take violence against waste staff. In 2022, we provided grant funding to the Scottish waste industry training, competency, health and safety forum—the SWITCH forum—to support a campaign against violence and aggression towards recycling industry staff. We take that very seriously.

On amendment 67, I acknowledge the importance of working with employee representatives on safe working conditions and workforce development for waste workers. Councils have serious responsibilities as employers. However, Mark Ruskell and Bob Doris made important points about the relationships that already exist between trade unions and local authorities, and I would not want to do anything to jeopardise those.

There is also a serious constitutional point, which is that industrial relations, employment law and health and safety law are all reserved matters. Imposing a duty on ministers on those reserved matters via amendment 67 would fall outwith the legislative competence of this Parliament. I do not think that that is what Mr Golden intends. The amendment is well meant but, if it was agreed to, it would jeopardise implementation of the entire bill.