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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 October 2025
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Displaying 3372 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

I will try to.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

Could you?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

Siobhian Brown has said that we are actively putting things in place to comply with the convention. As I said, we are not compelled to sign up to the convention, because we are not an independent state and we are not a member of the EU. However, Monica Lennon is absolutely right that we want to keep pace with standards in the EU, including environmental standards, but, in rights terms—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

The concerns in relation to Scotland were mainly around cost caps. I have outlined how Siobhian Brown has introduced measures to put cost caps in place, because that was the biggest barrier to justice in this area. That has already been done in the areas that I have outlined in order to protect people from runaway legal costs. As I said, there is also the work that she is doing on access to legal aid, which I am hopeful will further enhance that work.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

Yes. There is certainly scope in the legislation for ESS potentially to do more. I really look forward to seeing what its review comes up with. If it thinks that there are areas in which it can do more, and those fall within the powers of the current legislation, it will be up to Parliament to scrutinise that and to ask it questions about what it would do.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Gillian Martin

Other things are also happening in order to incentivise decarbonisation. For example, there has been a reduction in the amount of free allocations.

In relation to aviation across the UK, for example, we will have no more free allocations after 2026. That has been loudly trumpeted, and people are building up to it. Some of the larger emitters in that area—particularly in aviation, where there is not much danger of carbon leakage—are preparing for the fact that they will not have any free allocations.

It is about a real tightening up and really aligning the ETS with the net zero ambitions and targets of all four nations of the UK.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Gillian Martin

Effectively, it means that there will be no loophole for getting rid of CO2. At the moment, if you were to flare off any gas, you would have the ETS to cover that. We do not want a situation in which CO2 is being vented into the atmosphere, because that essentially has the same effect as flaring. It means that operations will have to be consistent with not venting CO2. The order is really closing a loophole.

It is my understanding that such venting is not exactly a practice that goes on an awful lot, but the order will remove that loophole in case, as I think that I mentioned in my statement, there is a perverse decision to vent without flaring, to avoid impacting ETS allocations.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Gillian Martin

Only a north-easter could ask such an intricate question, which I am pleased to answer. There are a couple of things in there.

Our position is that there must be a fiscal regime in place that allows the oil and gas industry to support its workforce and be instrumental in the transition to net zero. Quite a lot of oil and gas producers are involved in ScotWind licence options, and they support a vast supply chain. There is a well-rehearsed argument that we must ensure that we do not discourage activity in that area because, if we do, the workforce will relocate to other parts of the world, leaving Scotland without the expertise that we need in both the supply chain and the workforce to build out ScotWind and the other industries that will keep us as an energy-producing nation.

Scotland has a good story to tell about decarbonisation, because we have the innovation and targeted oil and gas licensing route. The first licences that have been given through the consenting unit have been for the INTOG scheme, which is about allowing the build-out of floating offshore wind to provide power to existing oil and gas-producing platforms. That means that they can use electricity, rather than diesel, in their production processes, which will markedly reduce production emissions in that area. We are the only part of the UK that has done that, and there are quite a lot of lessons for other oil and gas-producing countries to learn if they are looking to decarbonise their emissions from oil and gas production.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Gillian Martin

I do not think that I said that, because I do not have the numbers on how much CO2 venting is going on in Scotland. I am sorry if I misspoke. I was just saying that the instrument will put the venting of CO2 on the list of actions that will be part of the ETS.

To come back on your ScotWind comment, ScotWind was designed for four reasons: to decarbonise the electricity that we supply to the whole of the UK; to provide an opportunity for Scotland to have a thriving energy sector; to fund net zero work, which I wish it to do—however, I will not pre-empt anything in the budget—and to encourage investment in Scotland, which it is absolutely doing.

My comments about anything that is done on funding from big emitters apply to the whole UK. That is certainly my view of what should happen. However, it is also my view that ScotWind should address those four aspirations. However, I do not want to pre-empt anything that is said in the budget.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Gillian Martin

I do not quite see the correlation between the ETS costing businesses money and carbon capture, utilisation and storage not going ahead. However, your mention of the possibility of CCUS not going ahead gives me the opportunity to say that it must go ahead. We must get action on the Acorn project’s track status. The Climate Change Committee has made it clear on many occasions that we will not reach our 2045 net zero target if carbon capture and storage does not happen in Scotland. We would also be missing a massive economic opportunity for Scotland, which might align more to your question.