The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3780 contributions
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
I am suggesting that there may be ways to address the concern that people have raised about the fact that there is such a high a bar for proving ecocide. A formal connection could be made between the two offences—for example, through an alternative conviction provision. I am just putting it out there that that is worthy of further consideration. I have not yet decided what we might propose at stage 2, but that is one idea. An alternative conviction provision provides for courts and juries to consider a specified lesser offence if they are not convinced that a conviction is merited under a greater offence. I am not making that up—such a provision could be made.
Therefore, there could be merit in the bill establishing the section 40 offence as an alternative to the new ecocide offence. I am giving consideration to that as a way of addressing the issue that members have mentioned, which was already a concern for the Government. Ecocide must provide additionality to the existing law, but, given that it involves a very high threshold or bar, we could lodge an amendment at stage 2 that would establish a formal connection between the two offences.
I would like other amendments to be made to the bill to make it more in line with the 2014 act, because there are areas in which it is not in line with the 2014 act. I have mentioned a few of those in the past half hour.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
I am giving consideration to that. I will not use the phraseology of “switching”. I have been very careful in what I have said, because we have not yet arrived at a decision about what we might do at stage 2. Of course, other members might want to do something similar, and we could work with them on that.
An alternative conviction provision would provide for courts and juries to consider a specified lesser offence at the same time as ecocide. I presume, therefore, that a verdict could be reached that it was not possible to convict someone of ecocide but they have been found guilty of the offence in section 40 of the 2014 act.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
We are just suggesting it. We do not know whether we will go down that route or whether someone else will, but we thought that it was worth airing it.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
Consent.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
Right. It goes above negligence, does it not? That goes back to some of the terminology. Ecocide means
“unlawful or wanton acts committed with knowledge that there is a substantial likelihood of severe and either widespread or long-term damage”.
That is the definition that is set out by the expert panel on the definition of ecocide. The definition also says:
“‘Wanton’ means with reckless disregard for damage, clearly in excess in relation to social and economic benefits anticipated. ‘Severe’ means damage which involves very serious adverse changes”.
I do not know how negligence fits into that. How would you prove that negligence was wanton? That is the issue here. Negligence can be wanton and reckless, but does it suggest a knowledge that what you are doing is causing harm?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
It is about proving it. If I may, I will bring the lawyer in on that.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
They would be working under the direction of the organisation, so I would not see any difference in that regard. Again, David Murdoch has the letter of the law, but an individual could be contracted to do something that causes wilful, wanton harm. The bill provides for the case where someone is
“acting as the employee or agent of another”.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
You say “proper”, by which you mean that the company is following the direction of the contracting company.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
No. They would be prosecuted under the 2014 act, which does not mention ecocide.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
I will bring in David Murdoch, because he is a lawyer.