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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3780 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

There would be such a high bar. The big debate that we are having is whether the bill’s provisions are sufficiently additional to those that already exist in Scotland. I would be very wary of a company that said that it would not work in Scotland because we had an ecocide law.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Section 2(3) departs from the common position and effectively reverses the burden of proof by placing the burden of proving the defence of necessity on an accused person. Careful consideration must be given to whether that reversed burden is compatible with the ECHR article 6 right. We do not think that it is and that is a flaw in the bill.

Under article 6 of the ECHR, to be “presumed innocent” is an aspect of a person’s right to a fair trial. Section 2(3) reverses that, which we feel quite strongly about. Should the bill reach stage 2, we will look to change that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, you are absolutely right, Mr Stewart. Even ahead of the submissions by local authorities and permitting authorities, I favoured an amendment to introduce a defence of acting under permit or other authorisation, as exists in relation to the offence that is set out in section 40 of the 2014 act. It would make the bill and the 2014 act compatible, and it would provide that defence.

You are right that NFU Scotland, the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and a lot of local authorities have mentioned it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

It is important that we recognise that a defence of carrying out a permitted activity is not a licence to commit ecocide. However, acting outwith the terms of the authority could expose someone to prosecution for ecocide.

If the activity is permitted, there are already provisions in the application for the permit and in the decision to give the permit that a person must meet. If someone acts outwith the permit, they are acting outwith the permit. They could be wilfully committing severe environmental damage.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

That has to be a defence.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, we do.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

As I said, we already intended to lodge an amendment on a defence of acting under permit. We received the letters from which you read only last night, and we will look at them thoroughly. I would be happy to work with any member who thinks that we can lodge amendments to the bill that would protect against the scenarios that Mr Stewart has just outlined.

I got the submissions from the local authorities last night, and we are looking at the issue in case there are any other unintended consequences. I am happy to work with any members to test their amendments on the matter.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Of course, this is not my bill. I am giving evidence on someone else’s bill.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Maybe I read the wrong bit.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

If there are pressures on particular public bodies in dealing with existing laws, they can of course come to me and explain what that pressure is and what they need.