Chamber and committees

I have regular discussions with my counterpart Huw Irranca-Davies, the Deputy First Minister of Wales, about this. He is very determined that Wales will have a scheme that includes glass, so Wales has opted out, as you rightly put it, of the DRS regulations that we are putting forward as the three remaining nations. I would not want to speak for him, but he hopes that he will get an internal market act exemption to be able to do that, in the same way that Scotland did. My officials have been working with Welsh officials on how we thought that we could do that in order to assist them.

We continue to discuss the impact of the internal market act not just on DRS but on devolved competency and responsibility. The issue is still very alive. The Scottish Government’s position is that we would like the act to be repealed in full to allow devolved Governments to make their own decisions in the way that we should.

I am supportive of what Wales is doing. It is up to those in Wales to decide how they will do it. They are still in negotiation with the UK Government on that and are looking at how any scheme that they come up with will be interoperable with the scheme in the rest of the UK. That is for them to decide and they will be given the space to do that.

I might need to ask my officials for a definitive answer, but the oversight group has been set up so that we actively monitor the situation. As I said, the group will meet every month, and we will get reports on staff training and our ability to meet the deadlines. I would hope that, if things were not going to plan, we would find that out early and be able to provide assistance or guidance, even if resources were required. I would hope that that would happen well ahead of a situation in which we had to think about stop-go.

Phil Leeks might want to add something.

I have in front of me some definitions and the schedules that they relate to. Waste feedstock permit level activity is set out in proposed new schedule 20 to the 2018 regulations, as inserted by schedule 11 to the amendment regulations, while permit level activity for non-waste feedstock is set out in proposed new schedule 26 to the 2018 regulations, as inserted by schedule 17 to the amendment regulations. SEPA determines the environmental limits. I hope that that is helpful.

I am trying to give you as much information as possible, but I think that SEPA is, as Phil Leeks has said, the determining body as to whether something is waste or non-waste. That is the discussion that it is having at the moment with the Scotch Whisky Association.

Not really. The reduction of ammonia emissions has been incorporated into existing codes of practice; for example, there is the “Prevention of Environmental Pollution From Agricultural Activity”. Instead of having a completely different document and code of practice, we have brought ammonia emissions into an existing code of practice. That work has been done.

I am hopeful that it will make a difference. The SRUC has a very good reputation in the work that it does with land managers to bring forward innovative practices that are good for the environment.

Again, you have touched on something that is quite niche, for which I do not have a specific answer. I need to find out more about that, but SEPA would be able to advise on whether it is something that it wants me to look at. It is something that I will need to take away, convener.

The oversight group reports to me. Given that, I imagine that decisions would be taken as a result of advice coming to me about any issues that might arise. I am confident that that will not happen, though, because governance arrangements have been put in place. The group has met ahead of the regulations coming into force. Its members know that scrutiny and oversight will be regular and that actions will be associated with every meeting that takes place. A report will come to me about progress on that, too.

Although, of course, SEPA will be able to give greater detail on the operational aspects of what it is doing.

A great deal of work has been done on odour in general in the past decade, particularly as a result of a couple of reports that came to ministers more than 10 years ago. The committee will be aware that a lot of the odour is associated with waste water treatment. Scottish Water has been undertaking a comprehensive process to improve the waste treatment centres, and it is using new technologies that reduce odour and have better environmental outcomes.

I highly recommend visiting one of Scottish Water’s new treatment centres, of which there are a few. They use a bacterial digestion process, so the waste water coming in is the only point in the process where you will smell anything. I have been to quite a few of those centres, as you can imagine, in my capacity as cabinet secretary. Very quickly, the bacterial digestion systems eliminate odour, so there have been a lot fewer complaints from anyone in the vicinity.

With regard to how the regulations relate to odour, if a member of the public detects any odour, they would initially, as always, contact their local authority. If the odour results from an activity of which SEPA has oversight, the local authority would get in touch with SEPA. By the process of reporting to the local authority, and the local authority then contacting SEPA, if there was excessive odour associated with any activity that was in breach of any of the regulations, SEPA would be monitoring that.

The activities that are authorised under these regulations include sewage treatment, which is regulated by SEPA, with the Scottish Government providing guidance on it. The definition of “pollution” in the regulations includes

“the ... introduction ... of substances ... into air, water or land which may ... cause offence to any human sense”.

That includes odour.

We hope that, as a result of bringing all those aspects into one instrument, any new activities that may have odour associated with them are now brought within the scope of the regulations and should not cause excessive offence to the senses, as the regulations set out.

As I said, however, that is happening not just as a result of the regulations. Targeted work has been done on processes around sewage in particular to reduce odour, largely as a result of investment by Scottish Water in its waste treatment works, but also resulting from the rapid acceleration in technology associated with the treatment of sewage.

I am just having a little confab with my officials around that.

If councils are looking for specific guidance on the matter, we could produce that in order to make it clear.