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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 June 2025
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Displaying 3234 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

We move to the topic of Covid-19 recovery, although we have been skirting around it for the past three quarters of an hour.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

Welcome to the 26th meeting in 2022 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received apologies from Evelyn Tweed. Gillian Mackay is joining us remotely and everyone else is here in person.

Under agenda item 1, do we agree to take item 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

Agenda item 2 is evidence taking as part of the committee’s pre-budget scrutiny for the 2023-24 budget. Witnesses are joining us both in person and remotely. In the room, we are joined by Professor David Bell, professor of economics at the University of Stirling. Thank you for coming along, David. We are also joined by Leigh Johnston, senior manager for performance, audit and best value at Audit Scotland, and Professor Raphael Wittenberg, associate professorial research fellow at the London School of Economics and Political Science. Good afternoon to you both.

This is a huge topic, so please forgive us for asking wide-ranging questions. We do not expect you to cover everything. There is tremendous pressure on the national health service not just in Scotland but in the whole of the United Kingdom, although we are concerned with the Scottish NHS, as a result of the cost of living crisis, the fuel costs that are involved in running large estates, demographic factors relating to staffing, increasing prescribing costs and various other issues. If the current plans for spending on the Scottish NHS look reasonable—notwithstanding the budget review at Westminster, which will have a knock-on effect in Scotland—can they be sustained in the face of all those pressures? I put that question to David Bell.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

I thank all the witnesses. Everything that they have said is a real springboard for deeper questions from my colleagues, who want to pick up on quite a few things that have been mentioned.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

Do our other witnesses want to answer some of the broad questions that I put out there to kick us off? Data has been mentioned, and I know that Leigh Johnston lives and breathes data.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

Our final line of questioning is on health and social care outcomes, which is a thread that has been running through everything.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

Would either of our remote witnesses like to come in on that question? Leigh Johnston, I saw you nodding along as David Bell spoke. Would you like to come in?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

We move on to questions on health and social care pay.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

Thank you, colleagues.

At the committee’s next meeting, we will take evidence on winter planning for the NHS and social care. That concludes the public part of today’s meeting.

16:11 Meeting continued in private until 16:30.  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

Gillian Martin

I remind colleagues who are joining us online to use the chat function to let me know when they want to comment or add to anything that has been said. As no one wants to do that at the moment, I will ask David Bell a supplementary question.

I will not go too deeply into preventative spend, as colleagues will ask about that during the meeting, but we need to quantify where other interventions and areas of spend in portfolios have impacts on health. If we were to take money away from an education budget in order to put it towards health, that could have the impact of increasing people’s ill health. If we put more money towards, for example, net zero, that will have an impact on health as well. You mentioned data. Are we almost too fixated on the health budget being about health, rather than having a general budget that impacts on the nation’s health? It is also very difficult to quantify that.