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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 3195 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

I will follow on from Willie Rennie’s line of questioning. In its submission, Skills Development Scotland specifically said:

“the SFC is empowered to fund apprenticeships, however it is not legally required to do so”.

There is a concern that it could go either way: the SFC might focus too much on colleges and universities and not enough on apprenticeships, or vice versa. Does there need to be something in the bill—such as ring-fenced money—to direct the SFC a bit more in that regard, or can we leave it to the SFC to get it right in the doing, as you said?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Thanks. Ms Reid, do you have anything to say on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Does the SFC have sufficient powers, or is it more a question of how it uses the powers? The Educational Institute of Scotland feels that the SFC has not used its powers as much as it could have done. Is that more about attitude and culture?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

The problem is that if they are autonomous and make the wrong decisions, they come back to us and want to be bailed out.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

On the risk-based approach, it is common for auditors in business and in all sorts of areas of life to focus more on risky subjects than on less risky ones. For starters, would the member not accept that that is quite a good principle? Secondly, can he tell us how many inspections there are at the moment, how many there would be under his plan and whether there is any costing of that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

I asked the member about the frequency of inspections. I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that there are about 250 inspections a year now and that his proposal would take that number up to 800, which is three times as many inspections as there are at present. There would be quite a cost to that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Stephen Kerr mentions the reality that the inspector might find. Can that be objectively measured, and how would the inspector do that? They might speak to the trade union representative, who might say, "Oh, morale is terrible," but I presume that they would have to do something more than that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Would the type of employment contract not be fairly standard throughout a number of establishments? Would there not be a lot of repetition in that regard?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Okay—thanks.

Professor Seaton, you said that simplifying the landscape is a good thing, and I am certainly in favour of that. Are there risks to doing that? The SFC’s staff numbers will grow dramatically. Will it be hard for it to get right the balance between the university-college side and the apprenticeship side?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

From some of the evidence that we have had, we get the impression that the relationship between Skills Development Scotland and business and industry has been quite good, but there is some nervousness in some circles that that will be disrupted. For example, the UK Fashion and Textile Association said:

“Historically, the SFC has been more focused around research and academia but if also taking over from SDS they need to hit the ground running in terms of being employer facing.”

Is there a concern that the SFC will struggle to have as good a relationship with industry as SDS has had?

Either of the witnesses can answer that.

09:30