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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 July 2025
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Displaying 2881 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Deputy Convener

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

Item 2 is the appointment of a deputy convener. The Parliament has agreed that only members of the Scottish Labour Party are eligible for nomination as deputy convener of this committee. As such, I nominate Michael Marra as deputy convener of the committee. Do members agree to choose Michael as our deputy convener?

Michael Marra was chosen as deputy convener.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Deputy Convener

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

I will suspend for 15 seconds while we change chairs.

09:31 Meeting suspended.  

09:31 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

Would you say that the relationship that you build with civil servants is more important than the relationship with the minister?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

Good morning, and welcome to the 12th meeting in 2023 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. As the oldest member of the committee—which I am required to state—I will convene the meeting for the first two items of business, which will take only a couple of minutes, until the committee chooses a deputy convener. Sadly, the convener is not able to attend today, due to a bereavement.

I know that the convener would want me to first put on record our thanks to Daniel Johnson for all his hard work in supporting the committee’s scrutiny and for his collegiate approach as the deputy convener.

I am pleased to welcome Michael Marra to the committee as a new member and as Daniel’s replacement. I invite him to declare any relevant interests.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

That is helpful; thanks. We have already discussed how we can make longer-term decisions so that it is not all about the short term. You have all recognised that that is a problem, but I wonder whether any of you have solutions.

We had the example from New Zealand of civil servants setting out a longer-term plan—not a plan, but the options for a sector. That work is not connected to the minister. That is never done in Scotland, because everything that civil servants do here comes through ministers. Does the New Zealand approach sound feasible, or do you have any other suggestions for how we can get longer-term planning, given that all members of Parliament are elected every five years?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

Why is that not happening? Are civil servants not incentivised properly?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

Training and upskilling have come up previously.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

Do you want to come in on that, Dr Turbyne?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

John Mason

The committee has been looking quite a lot at how things work within Government. Today, you are mainly commenting on how Government as a whole relates to you. I was interested in SCVO’s point in its written response that it would be

“helpful for the voluntary sector itself to get a better understanding of how the Scottish Government works and how decisions are indeed taken”,

which is kind of what we are trying to do here. Does it matter to you whether it is civil servants who are the main people who lead on policy, with the minister trailing along behind, or whether, in other cases, it is the minister who drives things and the civil servants trail along behind? Does that impact on you?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (Grangemouth Area)

Meeting date: 26 April 2023

John Mason

It is a pleasure to be at today’s meeting. As the cabinet secretary will probably know, I am a substitute member of the committee, so I have not been involved in this inquiry as much as others have. However, I have heard a lot of interesting stuff today.

In relation to the workforce—both direct employees and also contractors and others who are a bit further away from the main players—I am picking up that there is concern in some circles. I take the point that you have met the unions and that an engagement officer is in place. However, in its evidence, GMB Scotland said:

“A ‘just transition’ is happening to workers, not with workers.”

What is your reaction to that?