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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 July 2025
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Displaying 2881 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 23 May 2023

John Mason

We might come back to that and explore it a bit more.

Ms Payne, Reform Scotland’s evidence is quite strong in pushing that decisions should be made at local levels. Could you comment on some of that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

I saw that she had not said anything so far.

My first question is quite general. Why are some bodies included in the consolidated accounts, while others are not included?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

Continuing on the theme of the speed of decision making, we have, to be frank, had mixed views from different committee witnesses. For example, if we take Covid, some witnesses said that the speed was great—it was quick and decisive and so on—but others, especially from women’s groups, said that it was too fast and that there was not enough consultation. I have to say that I share your experience that, generally, decision making can be quite slow.

We also had evidence from businesses that they make a decision when they are 80 per cent certain about something, while their suggestion was that Government waits until it is 90 per cent, 95 per cent or 99 per cent certain before making a decision. Is it that there has to be a different speed for different decisions or are there principles to follow? How do you get the balance?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

That is helpful, thank you. It is good that we have had evidence from such a wide range of witnesses. We particularly appreciated meeting civil servants at St Andrew’s house, which was a slightly unusual experience for all of us but a very good one. They were very helpful.

On the issue of how transparent advice should be, you mentioned transparency in your opening remarks, and most of us would say that transparency is a great thing. However, some previous civil servants and ministers have said that there can be a bit too much of it. If all the advice is written down, for the sake of transparency, it is very difficult for a civil servant to give confidential advice or to give options in a more general sense. How do you feel that we can get the balance on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

Thank you.

I am a little unclear about what we can cover today. Are the consolidated accounts something that I can raise?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

They were the ones I picked up. I am sure that there are more, but we are time constrained.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

I will ask something else and then Ms Fraser can come in if she wants to. Does the relationship between the minister and the civil servants matter? Does it vary a lot? We get the impression that, in some cases, a minister can be quite overpowering, let us say, so they force the civil servants to do what they might not want to do. On the other hand, sometimes, the minister is quite weak and just follows what the civil servants want. Is that big variety of views something that we should worry about? I am sorry to put it all together—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

That makes sense. I think that some people expected to see the reserve balance in the consolidated accounts, in which there is a limit of £700 million, but I do not think that that figure actually appears. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

When I was reading the committee papers for the meeting, there was a number of terms that I was not familiar with. I hope that you can explain some of them to us. There is the “civil service commission”, the “civil service board” and a “civil service shadow board”. Could you explain what they all do?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 16 May 2023

John Mason

I could pursue that, but I will not, as I think I would get out of my depth quite quickly.

Some of this touches on decision-making issues that we discussed earlier this morning, so forgive me if it overlaps a bit with that. One issue that came up was with bill teams in the civil service. As I understand it, they are generally kept together through the progress of a bill, but might be disbanded afterwards, which can impact on the putting into practice of the new policies or legislation. Can you explain how that works?