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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 July 2025
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Displaying 856 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Graeme Dey

I am laughing, convener, because we have just been talking about how long some of that has taken and how it has dragged on. All I can say is that our understanding and our expectation—we have had nothing to suggest otherwise—are that it will be published next week, which will be of interest to the committee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Graeme Dey

That matter is being looked at, but given the SFC’s financial pressures, it is fair to say that it is more likely that public funding provided for such a purpose would have to come from the Government via the SFC.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Graeme Dey

Yes, I can, if you will give me a moment. Progress has been made on it, because it is quite an important piece of work and was an important ask of the Withers review.

That work is under way. The initial stage of the project has included wide stakeholder engagement to inform and refine its scope, and we have identified data collection requirements and are working in partnership with relevant agencies and other stakeholders to ensure a solid evidence base. Data gathering is under way.

That initial stage, which I have just outlined, is due to be completed in the coming weeks, and it will be followed by data collation and analysis and further stakeholder engagement—and I mean meaningful engagement—in that space. There is no doubt that there is an appetite to tackle the issue, and it is imperative that we do so. James Withers was absolutely right about that.

Once we get through that, the final stage of the audit will focus on ensuring that insights are available to inform policy development, and advice on that will be coming to ministers. However, we absolutely recognise the need to move in this space and to get this knocked into shape, because we hear loud and clear the concerns of stakeholders.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Graeme Dey

I am more than happy to do so.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Graeme Dey

I will say, to be blunt, that I am not going to get dragged into trying to micromanage internal and cross-trade union relationships. We both know that that is what is at play here. I will do everything within my power and authority to encourage people, as best I can, to approach the process of resolving the long-standing issues in the sector, but I am not going to attempt to micromanage those issues.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

As you have acknowledged, the SFC has written to the committee in greater detail. I will not comment on the evidence that was given at the time, but I do recall Paul Grice, I think, expressing considerable confidence to the committee about the capabilities of the organisation under its new leadership. I would reinforce that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

It most definitely will, because, apart from anything else, there will be clear ministerial direction about the importance of apprenticeships.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

It did not, but one might also argue that the university court did not really spot the problem coming either. As I have said to the committee before, I am committed to a process whereby we look at what comes out of Pamela Gillies’s report, as the committee will. We are engaging with the sector more widely to look at whether we can, through stage 2 amendments, do anything to improve the governance arrangements in relation to not only the SFC’s oversight but the court’s local oversight.

I will offer an example of one of the things that we have been looking at. We have looked at the possibility of getting ahead of the game by monitoring the cash reserves of the universities on a bi-monthly basis. It would, potentially, give an earlier signal of any emerging issue if their cash reserves were going down—although it is not straightforward, as a number of universities operate revolving credit facilities.

A number of conversations are going on around what better governance would look like to support both the individual courts and the SFC, if that is necessary. Perhaps more powers are needed to compel the provision of information, but we need to wait and see what comes out of Pamela Gillies’s report on Dundee.

I met the chairs of the court a couple of months ago. They are doing a piece of work, not just in Scotland but across the UK, on improved governance opportunities and things that we could do better, and they are going to come back to us with recommendations. We are absolutely committed to that work.

I do not accept that the blame for what happened in Dundee lies at the door of the SFC, but let us see what Pamela Gillies says.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

I do not—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

But it was never designed to do that. I want to be clear: the bill is quite a narrow bill that will enable us to kick off the process of tackling those issues. That is what it will do.