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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 November 2025
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Displaying 983 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

It is about culture, is it not? In the early days, there was a sense in organisations that FOI was an additional burden—an additional ask. People’s mindset was perhaps not what we would have wanted it to be. However, reflecting on my time since I came back as a minister, I would contend that the attitude and approach of those who deliver FOISA in our organisation is much improved. It is now part of the day-to-day work of the Government. Culturally, FOI has moved on quite a lot, and that has not required legislation.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

Given that it has never been needed, it is hard to come up with a precise example, but I talked earlier about something in the space of national security. That would be an example.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

So that there was greater clarity over what was in scope?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

Yes. I would also point out that, when the Parliament deals with legislation, we will often look at future proofing it; we try to guess what might come down the track and not bind ourselves. What I am saying is that having the veto future proofs the situation, because there could be something further down the line that would require us to use it, even though we have not used it up to now.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

There is a lot in there.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

I understand the frustration that we have not progressed matters at a greater pace. However, as I outlined previously, the process is there for a reason. Do I think that it is clunky? Yes, I do. Do I think that it takes too long? Yes, I do. However, we do not intend to go the other way, where we just designate willy-nilly and it creates difficulties for us. There is a balance to be struck, and we are willing to explore what that balance would look like.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

Earlier, I mentioned the word “perspective”, and everybody has a perspective on these things. There are people who will want FOISA to be rolled out far more widely than it has been and there are others who, rightly, are coming to a view on what they would consider to be shortcomings. I have acknowledged that there are shortcomings, and I have also acknowledged that I understand the frustration about the pace—I do not accept that it is glacial, but I know that it is not what some people would want it to be. However, I have also outlined the process that has to be followed to ensure that we get it right.

I think that the bill has usefully brought FOISA back into focus and has aired—or, more accurately, is airing—people’s concerns. As I said earlier, because of the lateness of the bill’s introduction in the parliamentary calendar, it may time out. That may be what happens. However, I would like to think that the issues that the bill has aired could at least contribute to, if not form part of the basis for, what will be done in the next session to address the issues that we have identified and that the bill identifies, accepting that there will be different viewpoints on some of the proposals, as we have heard today. We have been clear in the memorandum that we do not rule out the possibility of the need for further legislation. As the convener has alluded to eloquently, AI is an example of where we might need further legislation on what it will do and whether it will make freedom of information easier to implement, for example.

I am not being critical of the bill—I think that it has been very useful—but our job is to look at the practical application of some of the issues, examine the unintended consequences and help the Parliament to interrogate that and come to the appropriate conclusions. Sometimes, that paints us as being negative and resistant to things.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

I have been back in it for only nine weeks.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

We have to be clear: the process that is followed determines whether the initial look at a body and all its elements is confirmed by the activity that takes place to make sure that every aspect of its work is captured. I am choosing my words carefully, convener, because at times I get very frustrated by process.

I would like to see this and other things move more quickly. I accept that there is a discussion to be had about how to develop the process to make it move more quickly, but it has to maintain its integrity.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Graeme Dey

I accept that we do, but I would say to you that this is the Parliament. It has a responsibility to make sure that there are not unintended consequences from the practical application of what may at first glance be considered an appropriate way to go. I am just saying that there is a balance to be struck, and I accept that that balance needs to shift from where it is currently, but we must at all times ensure that the action that we take is appropriate.