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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 May 2025
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Displaying 1276 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

You mentioned people, which is the key thing in all this. You talked earlier about delivering for the people of Scotland. Are people—the populace at large—utilised enough in some of the commissioning work, particularly specialist commissioning work that has an impact on their day-to-day lives?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

I wonder whether David Livey or Duncan Thorp want to pick up on those questions.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

I am surprised that your members have not come up with some of them. I wonder whether Duncan Thorp has anything.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

Duncan, do you have anything to add?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

Let me give you an example, and it might be something that you have come across. At certain points—although not so much recently—there has been a real aversion to putting fair work into contracts, with lawyers saying to folks, “We cannot really enforce this” or “We might be challenged on this.” There was also the European ruling—Rüffert v Land Niedersachsen. What is your feeling about aversion in that area and has it been overcome to the degree that you would like it to have been?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

Basically, people are short-term bean counting instead of necessarily looking at the whole-life costs.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

I will play devil’s advocate, given the answer that Pauline Gordon has just given us. As an MSP, I have heard on numerous occasions that a good piece of work has been done in commissioning, which has led to procurement, and then the procurement has become process driven. Folk say that the accountants and solicitors are more in the driving seat than the folks who actually know what is required on the front line. Is that still a difficulty that is encountered regularly?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 28 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

It is a pity that George Adam is not here, because he would without a doubt have been interested in those Paisley stories.

We have heard from others—and, indeed, from the witnesses here today—about bureaucracies and that, sometimes, the system is still process driven. The legislation itself is good, but when it comes to implementation, things can still be process driven. We have also heard that the tender documents, the putting together of the contract and the commissioning can be good but, when the lawyers and the accountants get a hold of it all, everything changes. What is your experience of some of the risk-averse situations that come into play when, say, lawyers and accountants get a hold of all of this? That question is for Lindsey Millen.

11:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 27 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

Often, in the past—not only in the Scottish Parliament but in councils—equalities and human rights have been seen as add-ons to any report or any decision making that was taking place. Often, and especially when I was a council member, I was told that those things were rather costly. That was probably your experience too, minister.

Would you say that mainstreaming has saved money by getting those things right? Has it also saved money in whole-budget terms? We are taking account of the impacts of budget decisions on equalities and human rights.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 27 February 2024

Kevin Stewart

Thank you very much, convener, for allowing me to come back in. The minister said earlier that she looks at everything through an equality lens—I do not think that anyone could doubt that.

Today, we have had lines of questioning about what the minister would do if she was compiling a budget from scratch. Does she see a bigger role in future for priority-based budgeting, not only in her portfolio but across Government, to ensure that those priorities are at the very forefront of budget work?