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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 May 2025
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Displaying 1276 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

We all recognise that a holistic approach needs to be taken, but I think that that kind of phraseology—that is, talking about handing someone over to another body—is part of the problem. Some folk think, “That’s my part of the job done. Now it’s somebody else’s problem.”

Ms Arbuckle, you mentioned some areas in which the police are involved in order to deal with addiction and mental health issues—for example, you talked about DBI. Do you see that sort of thing as part of the job, or is it just a wee bit that you do before handing the person over to somebody else?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I am using your phraseology, Ms Arbuckle. It is not my phraseology—it is yours.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I have no relevant interests to declare.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Thank you very much. I will leave it there, convener.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I thank the witnesses for their answers thus far. I think that everybody agrees that the legislation is necessary. Everybody, as always, has tried to point out the best practice that is taking place. It is just a pity that that was not exported across the board. However, the legislation alone is probably not enough, and there needs to be cultural change across the board. I want to concentrate on some of that and on keeping folk out of crisis.

I was interested in two things that Valerie Arbuckle said. First, you said that “everybody is very busy”. I get that. Most folk are busy dealing with crisis and will become less busy only if they are not dealing with crisis. Secondly, you used the phrase,

“handing the person ... to another ... body”.

I will be honest with you. If that attitude continues—if it is seen to be about handing the person to another body rather than about collaborating with other bodies to provide support—that will not bring about the cultural change that we want to see. Do you want to comment on that, Ms Arbuckle?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Thank you. I could ask what you mean by “robust”, but I had probably better leave that for now, and you might give us an indication afterwards of what you would like to see in terms of that “robust” action.

I turn briefly to Suzie Mcilloney on the culture change aspect. We all know that excellent legislation can be brought into play—we heard earlier from witnesses about our having some of the best homelessness legislation in the world—but that it does not necessarily work for everyone in practice. What do we need to do to underpin the new legislation when it comes to that cultural change? What should we ask public bodies to do to ensure that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I get the gist—thank you.

I turn briefly to Mr Togher, whom I know from another life—it is good to see you, Pat. I would say that some of our previous discussions over the years have been about a lack of co-operation between public bodies to help an individual. Is the legislation enough, or do we need a further cultural shift so that everyone takes ownership of helping individuals?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Good morning. I turn first to Shea Moran, because he stated very clearly that the working groups that he was involved in—the voices of lived experience—feel that elements are missing from the bill. Mr Moran, will you expand on that? What is missing? What is required for the change that you seek? Is it legislation or is it the cultural change that Suzie Mcilloney mentioned in her opening remarks?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

What is not right? Is it failures in the legislative framework or is it the interpretation of the legislation, as it stands, by certain bodies? In addition, can we do something with the new piece of legislation to make sure that the kind of uniformity and best practice that you want is exported through good legislation and regulation?

10:30  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I do not want to put words into your mouth in any way but, when folk come to me with a problem, I often find that the initial problem that they come with is not the real problem at all—I do what we call “the delve” to find out what the underlying problem is. Are you talking about that aspect—that further delve into asking folk what the real difficulties are? Beyond that, is there enough training in trauma-informed practice on the front line to get folk to do that delve and understand what folk are going through?