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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 798 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

I want to ask you about a couple of comments in section 5.1 of your report, which is entitled

“Path dependency: what are we transitioning to?”

In that section, you refer to

“an academic/third sector consortium”

that said that there was a difficulty in breaking

“the path dependency between economic development and oil and gas related industries”,

with

“considerable resistance to doing so from companies, governments and communities, largely due to concerns and uncertainties over costs and impacts.”

You also quote the chief executive of Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce, who said:

“no one is going to come in and pick up things like floating offshore wind, hydrogen, carbon capture, etcetera, because right now it is not commercially viable.”

How do we ensure a just transition? How do we manage the move from oil and gas to renewables? What support is required from either the Scottish or UK Government?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

We are often told that Scotland has two Governments. Whose responsibility would it be to encourage that manufacturing? Who has the levers that would encourage the manufacturing of offshore wind turbines and so on?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Thank you very much.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Meeting date: 22 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Morning, minister. On Murdo Fraser’s point, I remind folk that the Conservative Government in the 1980s tried to stop boycotts against apartheid South Africa. We should remember that.

Amnesty International, in its evidence to the UK Parliament, highlights that Scotland is attempting to

“use the leverage of public procurement to incentivise companies to behave sustainably with regard to human rights, labour rights and the environment.”

Similarly, Human Rights Watch said that, if the bill comes into operation,

“The effect could be to hamper these groups from taking steps in business dealings to avoid causing or contributing to human rights abuses and international crimes.”

The Local Government Association in England has raised concerns, and Universities UK has raised concerns about freedom of speech and so on. My question to you is this: what would be the potential impact on the procurement policy or pension fund investment decisions of councils or universities if this bill were to become law?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

I apologise for being late to the committee this morning, which was due to the traffic. Much of what I was going to ask about has been touched on. However, I want to ask a couple of specific questions, the first of which goes to John Boland.

A couple of times, you have mentioned the need for a universal training passport so that people can come from the oil and gas industry into—predominantly—offshore wind. Can you give us an idea of the cost for somebody who is trying to make the transition without the universal training passport?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Given that we already produce more electricity than we can use in Scotland, we have the capability to export that electricity or use it for hydrogen production. We are already one step ahead, in the sense that we have that surplus. The potential to export to Germany was mentioned earlier—I am thinking of the HyLion project that the Scottish Government has announced. How do we get investors interested, given that we have the energy hub, this excess of wind-generated electricity and a potential project to export hydrogen to Germany in liquid form?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Does anybody else want to come in on that? Maggie?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

Thank you very much.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

During the transition period, which will go on for a reasonably long time, especially since the UK Government has made available more licences for oil and gas, we will have to juggle the need for workers in the oil and gas industry for the next 10 or 20 years with the need for workers for offshore wind, which is proving to be successful. We generate surplus electricity in Scotland, which we send south of the border. There is also huge scope for hydrogen.

Colin Beattie touched on the difficulty in attracting enough workers. I am aware that only 36 per cent of workers in the oil and gas industry in the UK are in Scotland. What is the UK Government doing to try to tackle the problem, given that only 36 per cent of oil and gas workers are in Scotland?

10:15  

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Gordon MacDonald

My second point is about oil and gas workers’ transferable skills. If they do not have work in the UK, they can go to Gabon, Venezuela or all over the world, and vice versa—people can come here. The Offshore Energies UK report highlighted that in recent years, 27 per cent of EU workers in the North Sea have left and 54 per cent of non-EU workers have left, which is around about 3,000 jobs in total. What needs to change in the UK immigration system to attract workers so that we can juggle the three balls of offshore wind, oil and gas, and hydrogen?