Chamber and committees

Okay, I will leave it at that. Thank you.

Good morning. Forgive me, but for a wee while there I thought that I had entered the health committee’s meeting. [Laughter.]

As I was listening to what all of you said, I noted that there are questions about trust, transparency, bad actors and overreliance on AI, and that this area needs confident leadership. I also noted a comment made at the beginning of the meeting about how, at the time of the birth of the internet, regulators did not move quickly enough. What should the role of the Government be now, as far as AI is concerned?

I thank members across the chamber for supporting my motion in order that this important debate, which highlights the need for a £35 million centre for sustainable brewing and distilling to be built at Heriot-Watt University, could take place. I welcome to the public gallery senior members of the Heriot-Watt University team behind the project.

Scotland’s brewing and distilling sectors are huge economic drivers. Scotch whisky exports were worth £5.4 billion in 2024—the equivalent of 44 bottles a second, or 1.4 billion bottles a year, being exported from Scotland to more than 160 markets around the world. Our distilling sector supports about 41,000 jobs, which is 90 per cent of all distilling jobs in Britain. Beer sales in Scotland total about £428 million, which supports the brewing sector to employ 8,000 people in Scotland in more than 120 breweries, ranging from large industrial breweries to independent craft brewers.

There is a clear and well-documented need for a new centre that is dedicated to sustainable brewing and distilling in Edinburgh, driven by increasing industry demand for environmental innovation, reduced carbon emissions, a transition to clean energy and the implementation of circular economy practices, plus evolving green regulations and the legacy of Heriot-Watt University’s leadership in the sector.

Given the importance of the brewing and distilling sectors to Scotland’s economy, it is only right that we have a state-of-the-art facility that is fit for the 21st century and will support the sectors to continue to grow and expand. Since 1903, Heriot-Watt University has trained generations of brewers and distillers, which has contributed to the success of brewing and distilling not only in Scotland but across the continents of Europe, the Americas and Asia.

In 1989, the university established the world-leading international centre for brewing and distilling, which was founded by Sir Geoff Palmer, the university’s late chancellor, who sadly passed away earlier this year. The inspirational leadership continues to this day, with Professor Dawn Maskell, the director of the centre, winning the award for mentor of the year last month at the inaugural women in beer awards.

It is no great surprise, therefore, that many of today’s best-known Scotch whisky master distillers and brewers—including BrewDog co-founder Martin Dickie; Kirsty Black, master distiller at Arbikie Highland estate; and David Wilkinson, head distiller at Edinburgh Gin—studied at that existing facility.

The proposed new resource is a 21st-century upgrade of the existing centre. It is a fitting legacy for Sir Geoff, as it is envisaged that it will include a living laboratory for circular low-carbon production, a pilot-scale test bed for greener processes and a sensory analytics hub with flavour mapping supported by artificial intelligence to halve concept-to-launch timelines. The new centre will embrace the latest green technologies and sustainable practices, thereby ensuring that the university continues to lead the world in securing a future for both industries.

In my time as the MSP for Edinburgh Pentlands, I have seen the power of training and education in transforming lives. The centre will provide students, apprentices and professionals with the training that they need and will bridge the gap between the classroom and innovative industry. There will be new scholarships in honour of the late Sir Geoff Palmer to widen participation and diversify talent, new online master of science programmes, the growth of graduate apprenticeship partnerships and pathways, and executive education and continuing professional development, all aligned to industry demand.

It will come as no surprise to members that I support Heriot-Watt University’s proposal to establish the new centre here in Edinburgh. It is more than just bricks and mortar; it is an investment in skills, innovation and community, and in Scotland’s global reputation.

We all know about the heritage of brewing and distilling in Scotland: the whisky, the craft beers, the centuries of craftsmanship and the export successes. We also know that, in an increasingly competitive global market, heritage alone is not enough—we must combine that heritage with high-end research, innovation in processes, sustainability and training for the next generation of experts. Heriot-Watt University’s proposed centre offers precisely that: a place where tradition meets innovation, where our distillers and brewers can pioneer new techniques, where our students are equipped with world-leading expertise and where Scotland continues to show global leadership in the sector.

The vision for a new centre comes at a time when the brewing and distilling sectors are committed to decarbonising operations by 2040; the industry is facing extended producer responsibility fees for packaging; and market access is improving, especially in India, where the lowering of tariffs has strengthened the export case for higher-value, low-carbon products. The industry recognises those challenges and opportunities, which is why Diageo and Carlsberg Britvic both back the university’s vision to deliver groundbreaking, sustainable processes and a highly skilled workforce.

The project will have huge benefits for Edinburgh and the rest of Scotland, first of all in jobs. The new centre will support roles not only in academia but in industry partnerships, supply chains and production, and young Scots will have the opportunity to build careers here, so we will keep talent local. The second benefit relates to research and innovation. By placing state-of-the-art labs, pilot plants and testing facilities in Edinburgh, we will create a hub where companies and researchers can collaborate. Through that, we can enhance productivity, reduce costs, improve sustainability and strengthen Scotland’s competitive edge. To achieve that, we need everyone, from the drinks industry to policy makers, whether at local, Scottish or United Kingdom levels, to get behind the fundraising effort by Heriot-Watt University to realise the vision.

In Scotland we have many strengths—our heritage, our craftsmanship, our natural resources and our global brand—but, if we have strength without renewal, we risk being overtaken. Heriot-Watt University proposes renewal rooted in tradition, reaching for innovation and opening doors for our young people, for industry and for our communities. Let us seize the opportunity and build a centre of excellence in brewing and distilling in Edinburgh that is fit for the 21st century—one that honours our past, equips our present and secures our future.

What assessment has the Scottish Government made of the economic implications of not pushing for the people of Scotland to have the opportunity to decide their own future and escape the mire of broken Brexit Britain?

I will leave it there. Thank you.

Should there be a role for Government? You have talked about the need for trust, safety and quality frameworks, but we want everybody to be working to the same standard. Given that AI has been around for 30 years, what legislation is in place to govern it? Should we have a regulator? I am not saying how effective these regulators are, but we have Ofcom and the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets. Should there be a regulator that covers AI?

Given that AI has the potential to improve productivity and make businesses more efficient—that is another way of saying not employing more people or reducing head count—what policies are needed to support such a workforce transition? Is that not a role for Government?

Good morning. Just to reassure you, every question that I will ask has come from ChatGPT. [Laughter.] Yesterday, I asked a variety of models what questions I should ask you guys, and every model gave me different answers.

My first question is about governance. The vast majority of our companies are SMEs with fewer than 50 employees. If they have an IT department, it will consist of only a couple of folk, so they will be dependent on third-party software and one of the AI engines that were mentioned earlier that handle expenses, planning or whatever in the background. We must get it right so that they can make informed decisions and the use of AI improves productivity, which we have talked about. How are AI systems tested, validated and monitored for safety?

I have a couple of questions, but I want to start by asking about the annual report. I want to have this clear in my mind. Last year’s annual report was published on 17 October 2024. The publication of this year’s report is being delayed by four weeks. Is that because of internal pressure in Deloitte, or is it a problem with your own audit? What is the reason for the delay? As the convener has indicated, our role is very difficult when we do not see the latest annual report and we have to rely on something that is completely out of date.

Okay. Deloitte’s 2023-24 report on Consumer Scotland highlighted that the organisation had not developed a long-term plan covering five to 10 years ahead, and that you were to have that ready by quarter 4 of 2024-25. Will you update us on where you are on that?