Chamber and committees

We heard in our first evidence session today about the impact that college credits are having. I note that the First Minister was in Aberdeen this week to open the energy transition skills hub and I welcome that. I have met with the college there, and committee members regularly promote the hub.

Are you looking at a fundamental review of how college credits are being provided? That is one of the big asks of every college that I have spoken to. I am sure that there is a better way of making sure that we are meeting the skills gap in our economy by doing something specifically with credits. Is that something that you are starting to look at?

Thank you.

Last week, we heard from Kate Sanger about her daughter, Laura. The petitioner, Beth Morrison, and her son, Calum, have driven the campaign. What would you say to them? In both cases, the children are non-verbal. They have returned home with physical marks, and their subsequent behaviours have resulted in challenging situations for the family and also when they go back into education. Saying that we need more guidance and that we should wait and see is not enough for the campaigners. Policies have clearly failed that group of children and young people. Why have we not been recording the incidents? Why has best practice not been put in place to tell parents what has been going on?

My final question is about the role that the inspectorate has played to date in considering this issue. Where do you see it acting in future to support schools on training, so that restraint is used properly, and on the recording of incidents? There are past and future elements to that question.

As I said on the record last week, it is interesting that the Care Inspectorate has reported a 40 per cent reduction in the use of seclusion in the institutions that it inspects.

I thank the Labour Party for holding a debate on mobile phone use in schools. The Scottish Conservatives held a similar debate in January this year, and I am pleased that, since then, other parties—and, indeed, the cabinet secretary herself—have moved towards supporting our call for a national ban on the use of mobile phones in classrooms. We are clear that there is growing concern about behaviours in our classrooms, and mobile phones are often at the heart of those behaviours.

As Pam Duncan-Glancy said, our classrooms must be safe spaces for pupils to learn in and teachers and classroom assistants to teach in, but, for so many of our young people, they are not. Concentration is a key thing that we must ensure is restored. Many schools can be and are great learning environments for our young people and great environments for teachers to deliver the lessons that we all want to be delivered. However, we also need to make sure that standards are set.

Last week, I was delighted to visit Leith academy, which I know that the cabinet secretary also visited last week. I welcome what the school is doing to support its pupils, some of whom I welcomed to Parliament yesterday. I have been really impressed by the work that the school is doing on pupils’ expectations with regard to mobile phone use in classrooms. Most schools can manage expectations in that way.

However, in too many cases, our school environments have become toxic, with students and teachers experiencing stress, bullying and other negative behaviours, and mobile phone use is often at the heart of that. Action must be taken to ensure that poor behaviour in the classroom has consequences, and we must look towards not allowing pupils to have phones out in classrooms. I therefore welcome the fact that there now seems to be a clear consensus across Parliament on our desire to send out the clear message that we want mobile phone use in classrooms to be banned and that we want all 32 councils to move towards implementing such a ban.

As has been stated, here in the capital, City of Edinburgh Council is leading by example. I welcome the fact that Conservative councillors have secured a ban on mobile phones in Edinburgh’s primary schools, which will be introduced in November. In addition, two secondary schools—Portobello high and Queensferry high—have piloted the issuing of special sealed wallets, which, once sealed, require a magnetic pad to unlock them. That allows pupils to keep their phones in the classroom. That is an expensive solution to the problem, and I know from speaking to staff that the additional staff support that is needed to seal and unseal the wallets is problematic. I am open to different approaches being taken, and I think that headteachers should be at the heart of that work. All schools already try to manage the situation, and their headteachers have policies on the issue.

The Scottish Conservatives have led the debate on our toxic school environments. We have called for a reset on that, and I hope that ministers have started to listen. I hope, too, that Parliament will continue to listen to some of the commonsense views of teachers, parents and our young people that we have brought to Parliament. I welcome the progress that has been made in delivering some of the changes that we want to see, such as the review of additional support for learning, which we secured in May. Ultimately, we want Parliament to send out the message that we want there to be a national ban on mobile phone use in classrooms, and that we want all councils to work to progress that. That is what my amendment seeks to achieve.

I move amendment S6M-19123.1, to leave out from “banned” to end and insert:

“subject to a clear national ban in classrooms, recognising the strong evidence of how distracting they are and how disruptive they can be to pupils’ ability to learn and teachers’ ability to teach; acknowledges that while headteachers and local authorities have some powers to restrict the use of mobile phones, existing Scottish guidance is weak, and calls, therefore, on the Scottish Government to update its guidance with clear national direction on what is expected.”

Will the member give way?

I welcome the minister to his role, as I did on Tuesday.

I also thank Graeme Dey for his constructive work on the bill both cross party and with the Education, Children and Young People Committee, and I wish him well in his new role. I also thank the organisations that have provided useful briefings ahead of today’s debate.

On Monday, I visited Leith academy. I know that the minister, as the constituency member, is a regular visitor, too. I enjoyed a tour of the school and a very constructive conversation with the headteacher, Mike Irving. I believe that the cabinet secretary is also visiting the school next week—

Oh—this morning.

The work that the school is undertaking with young people in that part of the capital—especially those with attendance challenges—is exemplary, and I was really impressed with the school’s focus both on delivering positive outcomes and on making sure that we work to realise our young people’s potential.

That is why Scottish Conservatives want a radical new approach, with the development of a hybrid education—we want to give young people the opportunity to access college and take up an apprenticeship earlier in their learning careers. That has been missed from this bill, and I hope that we can pursue it at stage 2.

When Scottish ministers introduced the bill, we on the Conservative benches were open to the reasons and rationale behind it. It is worth reflecting on why the Scottish Government decided to legislate in this area. The independent review of the skills delivery landscape by James Withers in 2023 highlighted the need to focus on a new vision to meet the challenges of future needs. Principally, we need flexibility to be delivered across the post-school learning system in order to achieve genuine agility and to ensure that learners at all stages of life are accommodated.

Members from across the chamber will be hearing about or seeing the opportunities that apprenticeship schemes are delivering every week—they are critical to the skills that our economy needs now and in the future. I believe that they must be protected and nurtured, and not only so that we can grow and deliver more opportunities. We must ensure that we continue to fund those that are being delivered now.

Often, the key to success in the delivery of apprenticeships has been our fantastic college sector. Indeed, in his report, James Withers advocated

“a colleges and universities first approach”,

and I agree that there are opportunities to do more with the college sector in order to deliver them.

However, the sector itself has raised some concerns. For example, for every pound that leaves the Scottish Government, only 40 to 50 per cent is received by the colleges that undertake to provide the training for apprenticeship contracts in certain key sectors of the Scottish economy. As the committee heard, there is, in between the Scottish Government and the college, a managing agent that takes significant amounts of that funding.

I welcome the opportunity to streamline, and bring more money into, the college sector, and to deliver apprenticeships, even within the existing overall education and skills budget.

Yes, and I will come on to that. That is, as the committee highlighted, one of the main concerns.

According to Audit Scotland’s report “Scotland’s colleges 2024”, colleges face increasing financial challenges and a lack of clarity on their role from ministers, which hinders reform and sustainability. Funding has decreased in real terms since 2021, forcing colleges to cut costs and staff. It has been well documented that, under this Scottish Government, we have seen the loss of more than 100,000 college places.

I have met representatives from colleges across Scotland, and they expressed real concern about the limits that college credits are putting on many institutions. Indeed, the waiting lists for people to get on to courses often mirror directly the skills shortages that face our local and national economies.

Therefore, I believe that we need a review of college credits and a more agile delivery of credits for courses that are clearly needed in our economy today, net zero being one of them. Many meetings are taking place in the Highlands, for example, to discuss that very issue. Colleges Scotland states in its briefing that

“there is nothing else on the horizon which would bring significant change to the apprenticeship landscape in particular: this needs reform and colleges can support more people to gain an apprenticeship”.

During the committee’s evidence taking, it felt as though the Scottish Government did not have a vision of where it wanted apprenticeships in our country to go. I feel that the bill has not provided a route map for a genuine transformation of the delivery of apprenticeships. Fundamentally, the Government has not answered the question of what is wrong with the system; after all, we are currently delivering 25,000 apprenticeships when, last year, the demand was for between 35,000 and 40,000, according to the number registered.

The potential loss of the apprenticeship advisory board, as Douglas Ross mentioned, would have represented a backwards step, so I welcome some of the changes that the Government has outlined in that regard. However, there is nothing in the bill that focuses on the skills shortages that our national and local economies face. There is also nothing about targets that will help achieve the skills, the jobs and, ultimately, the economic growth that we hope that they will drive.

We must acknowledge the significant and important contribution of private training providers, particularly in the delivery of certification and registration services. Universities Scotland stated in its briefing that

“The current operation of the framework approach for new GAs effectively prevents universities from responding”

as well. I welcome what the minister has outlined, and I am sure that he will provide more details on graduate apprenticeships to members.

I agree with the concerns expressed by the Confederation of British Industry Scotland and the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, which were mentioned by Willie Rennie, that the bill has the potential to dismantle what already works and leaves employers in the dark in relation to the future of apprenticeships and the wider workforce system.

As Scottish Conservatives believe that the bill requires significant amendment, we will not be supporting it at decision time this evening. As drafted, it is problematic and poorly costed, and I believe that it represents a missed opportunity to take forward a radical and ambitious new approach to skills in Scotland.

That said, we believe that there is an opportunity here for the new minister, and I hope that he will genuinely work with MSPs from across the chamber to try to fix the bill. He will find an open door from Scottish Conservatives if he wants to do so, but we cannot support the bill at decision time.