Chamber and committees

COSLA and Social Work Scotland state in their responses to the committee that the figures that were used for the costs of aftercare assessments are out of date. What work is being done to update the cost estimates and the resources needed? What planning around that would be beneficial ahead of the bill?

I thank the minister for advance sight of her statement.

The Scottish Conservatives have consistently warned ministers that the situation on the ground in our secure accommodation sector was not sustainable. The minister’s statement demonstrates that the Scottish Government has failed to competently implement its policy to date, despite those warnings.

At the weekend, a story was reported in the Sunday Post regarding a vulnerable Aberdeenshire teenager, Callie Thomson, who has been inappropriately placed in all four of Scotland’s secure units since the age of 14. Callie, who has just turned 17, has now been discharged from the Rossie secure unit without a care package in place. She has been directed to homelessness services—a 17-year-old is being placed in homeless accommodation with people who have recently been released from prison and people with substance abuse issues. Callie said:

“I feel like I have been utterly abandoned, and nobody seems to care if I live or die.”

The destination on discharge from secure placements was not mentioned in today’s statement, but I am deeply concerned at the picture that is emerging. I believe that this will be the next big scandal to face the Scottish Government and shows its failure to meet the needs of some of the most vulnerable children and young people in our society. In 2024, 19 per cent of children were discharged with “other” recorded as their destination.

What is clear from today’s statement is that secure accommodation capacity across our country remains completely unstable. I ask the minister two questions. First, will she personally intervene and investigate the failings in Callie Thomson’s case? Secondly, given the continuing pressure facing wider children and young people’s services, will the minister undertake a review of the inappropriate placement of young people in adult homelessness services and adult mental health services?

Not a week goes by without me having a meeting with an organisation or speaking to a business in my Lothian region in which the issue of the skills shortages in our economy is raised. I am sure that the same will be true for every MSP. How we redirect the focus of our education system to deliver on the challenge that we face in our college sector will require not only a national effort but difficult decisions to realign future demand in key industries and sectors and meet the demographic changes that our country faces.

As many briefings for the debate state, there is significant unmet demand for places, apprenticeships and courses. That should focus all our minds on how we build a system that can deliver for people. In June, the principals of Ayrshire College and Glasgow Kelvin College gave evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee. Angela Cox from Ayrshire College noted that the college was unable to award a place to 764 students who had passed interviews, and Joanna Campbell from Glasgow Kelvin College noted that the college is accepting only one out of every three applicants. We know that the current system is not delivering to meet demand. The Scottish Government funded 25,507 modern apprenticeship places in 2024-25, but demand exceeded those funded places for learning.

I think that there is a cross-party consensus that we need a new approach, but the Scottish Government’s Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill will not deliver the better system or the vision for apprenticeships that we all want. As Murdo Fraser stated, the SNP’s response to this mess is simply to mess around with quangos and transfer responsibility for the national apprenticeship programme from Skills Development Scotland to the Scottish Funding Council. I do not believe that that is the right move at present. I agree with the concerns that are being expressed by CBI Scotland and Scottish Chambers of Commerce, namely that the bill presents the potential to dismantle what already works and leaves employers in the dark in relation to the future of apprenticeship schemes and our wider workforce system.

As others have touched on, it is important that there is transparency on the spending of the apprenticeship levy here in Scotland. In recent weeks, the Scottish Government has been accused of raiding £171 million from that scheme, and SNP ministers have spent only £704 million of the £875 million that has been raised. Businesses are rightly asking where the rest of the money from the levy has gone and why we have not seen vital training opportunities delivered in Scotland. Michelle Ferguson, the director of CBI Scotland, has stated:

“Businesses are paying in, but they are not seeing the return.”

She added that

“We need full transparency on how levy reserves raised in Scotland”

are spent in Scotland.

The SNP’s record on colleges is shameful. We need to admit that today, and I hope that the Government understands that. There has been a 20 per cent cut in real-terms funding, and the loss of more than 100,000 places. Waiting lists are at record levels, and the credits system is in crisis. When councils try to deliver flexibility, they are not being given the opportunity to take on more students. The new net zero opportunities at North East Scotland College, which we have been told about at committee, will not see any more credit.

The Government needs to look at how we can achieve more and how our college sector can deliver. Above all, we need a skills revolution in Scotland. That is why Scottish Conservatives are leading the debate for change. We want a significant increase of 10,000 in the number of modern apprenticeship places to boost economic growth, create jobs and allow businesses to expand. Working with our college sector and businesses, we can meet our young people’s aspirations and deliver to tackle the shortages that our workforce and our economy face. I support Murdo Fraser’s motion.

Has anyone from the University of Dundee sat on your board previously?

Yet the institutions are where they are today, in the current financial situation. We have heard that four colleges are potentially going to the wall.

There is probably quite a lot of consensus about that vision and how to get there, but there may be some differences. On your final point, it was clear from the stage 1 debate last week that only two political parties support the progression of the tertiary education and training bill. The minister will also be aware that we were not able to agree on the general principles of the bill for the committee report. Has he reflected on the concerns about the bill? Specifically, the warnings from the Confederation of British Industry Scotland and the Scottish Chambers of Commerce were quite stark, and I hope that the minister has understood that.

Given the amount of legislation that is passing through this committee and the Parliament, is the minister minded to withdraw the bill? What conversations have taken place about that?

Good morning. It has been put to me that the Scottish Funding Council is meant to be almost the canary in the mine to warn the Parliament about the financial challenges. However, I have found, as a member of the committee—I do not speak for other members—that it has not felt like that with regard to the information that we have been getting. The response to the previous question has perhaps demonstrated that.

Do you think that, as an organisation, you have done a good job to warn of the situation?

I do not think that, as a committee, we are in a place in which we have received any clarity from what we have heard today. I would appreciate it if the minister would write to the committee about who is taking the decision—the Scottish Funding Council, or the Government—and what the criteria will be for public money being given to Dundee university.

You started this evidence session by talking about protection of jobs in the sector. I am not sure whether that is part of those criteria. Anyone watching this meeting will not have an answer, so it would be useful for that to be outlined so that we can share it. The issue is really important—it is about people’s jobs and about our institutions—and we have not had any kind of answer about it today. That gives you time to go away and get that answer for the committee.

At what point has the organisation warned of an overreliance on international students? All your reports now seem to say that that is where institutions have got themselves into financial problems.

On the point about income streams, the committee has heard from university principals about the lack of flexibility around funding and, specifically, about how clawback is impacting on the sector’s ability to adapt. What discussions has the Funding Council had with the sector, the Scottish Government and others on that specific issue?